AVX to INFINITY

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:40 am

I posted earlier about A+X.

On to All-New X-Men...

All-New X-Men #12-14 pick up from issue #11 and go into the next day. These issues occur before UX3 11 and so before UX3 10. Because Maria Hill is "Director SHIELD" here, this arc must occur after SECA2 5.

In the one-day All-New X-Men #15, Rachel returns to the Jean Grey School after being away playing super-hero and encounters past Jean Grey – this appears to be the first time they meet, even though Rachel has been documented as being at the school after the original X-Men arrived from the past (at the very least in W&X 24, which must occur between ANX 8 and 9; and perhaps also in W&X 29, in which both women appear in different sections of a crowd); perhaps they’ve been avoiding each other and this is the first time they found themselves face-to-face. (Other recent appearances by Rachel at the Jean Grey School with no appearances by Jean include ScSp2 17 and X4 1-3.)

All-New X-Men Special #1, Incredible Hulk Special #1, and Superior Spider-Man Special #1 constitute a one-day crossover that occurs a while after All-New X-Men #15. Since Angel is not with the past X-Men, this story must occur before X-Men: Battle of the Atom #1.

Then we have the Battle of the Atom crossover consisting of:
X-Men: Battle of the Atom #1
All-New X-Men #16
X-Men v4 #5
Uncanny X-Men #12
Wolverine & the X-Men #36
All-New X-Men #17
X-Men v4 #6
Uncanny X-Men v3 #13
Wolverine & the X-Men #37
X-Men: Battle of the Atom #2
This arc occurs over a couple of days, just after Savage Wolverine #12. It must occur after X-Men: Legacy v2 #18 and Superior Spider-Man Team-Up Special #1. The arc must occur before Amazing X-Men v2 #1.

Following right up from Battle of the Atom, we have All-New X-Men #18, which takes place the same day as the end of BOTA 2 and two days later. In that latter part (pages 14-20), the young X-Men get new uniforms. Uncanny X-Men v3 #18-FB ties into ANX 18 and wraps up during the 2-day gap. I've placed All-New Doop #1 in that 2-day gap since the young X-Men have their original uniforms in that issue. So...
X:BOTA 2
ANX 18 (1-13) / UX3 18-FB (further breakdown available but not necessary for spine)
AND 1
ANX 18 (14-20)
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:43 am

Deadpool v5 is a blast! However, it's proving tricky to place chronologically.

DPOOL5 1-6 happens over a few days. Cap appears in his classic suit, Dr. Strange appears re-powered, the Avengers appear: Hulk, Iron Man (black & gold), Thor, Black Widow, Cap, Hawkeye (new suit). Deadpool gets the spirit of a SHIELD agent stuck in his head.

DPOOL5 7 takes place in the past.

DPOOL5 8-12 happens over a few days, and picks up right after #6. Spider-Man (Octavius) and Daredevil appear. Octavius is "on the outs" with the Avengers, so after Superior Spider-Man #10.

DPOOL5 13 takes place in the past.

DPOOL5 14-19 happens over a week (give or take) and wants to happen shortly after #12, but there has to be a break somewhere. Cap appears in his redesigned suit, Wolverine appears without his healing factor. Storm's there too, but she's under the sheets. Nightcrawler is still dead.

the Annual takes place in the past, but establishes that Hulk appears in DPOOL5 6 after he starts working for SHIELD.

DPOOL5 20 takes place in the past.

DPOOL5 21-25 picks up where #19 left off, Dr. Strange appears and mentions that it's been "months" since DPOOL5 1-6. The spirit of the SHIELD agent is still stuck in Deadpool's head.

So,

DPOOL5 1-6 & 8-12 takes about a week to happen. Hulk is already working for SHIELD, Octavius is Spider-Man.

DPOOL5 14-19 & 21-25 takes about a week to happen, and takes place after Wolverine loses his healing factor.

TB3 2-13 spans a month, and #7 (the middle of that month) happens somewhere after Uncanny Avengers #4 and before #7. TB3 14-18 are INFINITY tie-ins. Of course there's no mention of the SHIELD agent stuck in Deadpool's head anywhere in this series.

It's looking like DPOOL5 14-19 & 21-25 is after the INFINITY crossover. That means at least TB3 14-18 happen between DPOOL5 12 & 14, and possibly TB3 2-13.

Also, that means DPOOL5 1-6 & 8-12 takes place later than originally thought; at least after Superior Spider-Man #10.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Antonio Gaviño » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:19 am

A5 1-5 (Cap gets new suit)
UA 1-4 (Uncanny Avengers form)
AvX: Consequences 1 (5 - 20), 2-5
I should probably have said something about this placement quite some time ago but I seem to never find the time these days. Cap has his old suit in UA 1-4, that's just John Cassaday's way of drawing it, same way he draws Thor and Wanda's costumes different than any other artist at the time this is published. Winged mask and scaly chest are still there. The strap on the mask is new but seeing how UA 1 was published two months before A5 1, it looks more like Jerome Opeña got his inspiration from Cassaday's version, took some elements from it and created a new suit. Opeña also draws Cassaday's version of Thor in A5 1.
Not only that but UA 1 is supposed to happen shortly after the end of AvX, with Charles Xavier's burial being depicted. Just from start to finish of A5 1 there is a span of a month and three days. That would be a long wait to bury him, and that's not counting a lot of other books you have in between.
The way I see it this should be the order:
NA2 31-34
UA 1-4
NA3 1-3

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:05 am

I suspect we have a number of comics to consider during the gap between pages 30 and 31 of AVX 12. I believe ASM 692-694 are among them.

ASM 692 takes place on a school day, a day later that week, and the following Monday, a few weeks after ASM 686. Publication order suggests placement after PPSM 156.1 and WOSM 129.2. Given Beast's chronology, this issue must occur before ANX 1 (*see below). (Madame Web sees the events of ANX 2 as a future vision in ASM 695.)

ASM 693 (1-3) picks up right where ASM 692 leaves off, then the next day we have Avenging Spider-Man #11 followed by ASM 692 (4-20), which takes place over at least a few more days. ASM 693 ends a little over a week before ASM 694.

ASM 694 takes place over three days and must occur after Avengers Assemble Annual #1 since the Vision is with the Avengers here. Publication order places Spidey here before FF 610.

ASM 695-697 occur on one day, a month before Superior Spider-Man #4. We're ramping up for the end of Peter Parker as Spidey here, so Spidey probably appears here after SFSM 1 (5-20) and must appear here after Punisher War Zone v3 #5, A+X #4, Venom #31-FB (5), Secret Avengers #37, and Savage Wolverine #8. Madame Web’s visions include scenes from UA 1,ANX 2, A5 1 (7-17), CM7 5, TB2 1, MNPO 1, MNPO 1/4, MNPO 1/5, CA7 1,VENOM2 28, and ScSp2 14, but they may not all be future visions. This arc occurs earlier in the week of Superior Spider-Man #20-FB, which follows up right from ASM 700. So, there shouldn't be a big gap between ASM 697 and 698.

ASM 698-700 occur on one day, a month after ASM 678. Given Cap's new costume here, this story must occur after A5 3. The Uncanny Avengers appear in this arc, so it's after UA 4. This arc occurs two weeks before SuSM 3, at least weeks before AvSM 22, and months before SuSM 27. Given Iron Man’s armor, this story must occur before IM5 5 (14-20). Carol Danvers may appear here before she’s told not to fly in CM7 9. Since the Uncanny Avengers aren’t seen with Wasp, Wonder Man, and Sunfire, this story probably occurs before UA 5, and publication order places that team here before TB2 7. Publication order places Natasha, Clint, and Jessica Drew here before AvAs 12 (5-8). Since Peter Parker has stopped returning Flash’s calls in VENOM2 32, that story must occur after this issue.

Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 starts the day after ASM 700 and takes place over five days. Then Superior Spider-Man #1 likely starts the next day. Boomerang must appear in that issue after DA 183 and before Gambit v5 #9.

I believe Superior Spider-Man #1-3 take place over the course of nine days, ending two weeks after ASM 700. This arc should occur before DD3 21, A5 6, and NOVA5 7. It must occur before XF 253 if the Spidey in that issue is Octavius.

I have Otto next in DD3 21-22 before appearing in Avenging Spider-Man #16, which is a one-day story. *Because the Beast isn’t further mutated here, AvSM 16 must occur before ANX 1. (Looks like I need to do a post about ANX 1-11.) Jackal must appear in Avenging #16 before SuSMTU 1. Publication order places this AvSM 16 before A:BT 1.

I then place Otto in JIM 648 (part of a JIM 647-649 arc).

Then we have Otto in Avenging Spider-Man #17, a one-day story. The FF probably appear here after FF v2 #4.

Then I have Otto in the one-day Avengers v5 #6-9 arc, which occurs a few weeks before SuSM 6. Following that, Otto is with the Avengers in the one-day Avenging Spider-Man #18. Otto presumably hasn't killed Massacre yet, so this comic should occur before SuSM 4.

Superior Spider-Man #4 occurs over three days. It's now a month after ASM 700 and weeks before SuSMTU 1. Superior Spider-Man #5 probably occurs the next day and just days before SuSM 6.

Superior Spider-Man #6 is a one-day story that occurs a few weeks after Superior Spidey first appeared with the Avengers, likely in A5 6. SuSM 6 likely occurs the day before Scarlet Spider v2 #16, since that issue shows televised footage of SuSM 6's battle between Superior Spidey and Jester and Screwball.

Avenging Spider-Man #19 is a one-day story. I think it's between SuSM 6 and 7.

Spidey/Ock appears in the five-day mini, Alpha: Big Time #1-5, a story that occurs four months after ASM 693. Publication order places the Constrictor here between SECA2 2-FB (12-19) and VENOM2 37.

Superior Spider-Man #7-10 occur over two days. Cap places Superior Spidey on probation and Otto rids himself of Parker's consciousness.

Then I have Avenging Spider-Man #20-21, basically a one-day arc that must occur after Secret Avengers v2 v#1; publication order likely places this arc after SECA2 5.

Avenging Spider-Man #22 is a one-day story that probably occurs after TB2 12 for Punisher. Because Otto is still using his lair, this issue must occur before SuSM 11.

Superior Spider-Man #11-13 occur over two days. Given Otto's costume, this arc must occur before A5 14 and A+X 11/2.

Superior Spider-Man #14-16 probably take place over the course of eight days. This arc must occur after ScSp2 17 and NOVA5 7. The Daily Bugle on the splash page of SuSM 16 has the headline, "Daredevil Spotted with Silver Surfer," so I suppose DD3 30 occurs at this time. According to the Daily Bugle on the splash page of SuSM 16, Stark is still in space, so we're talking before NA3 8-FB. Otto is still on probation with the Avengers.

The probation is lifted in Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #1, which leads into SuSM 2, then Scarlet Spider v2 #20-23. This all should occur before A5 14 since Otto is back with the Avengers in A5 15.

Then I have Otto in Superior Carnage #1-5, a one-day arc that must occur after ScSp2 20 and before Superior Carnage Annual #1.

Next, Otto's in the arc of Avengers v5 #14-17. Spidey's reputation is restored in the Avengers' opinion. (He erroneously appears in his old costume in issue #14, but that is corrected in issue #15.)

I placed Otto in A+X #11/2 next.

Superior Spider-Man #17-19 form a one-day arc that occurs weeks (?) after ASM 697 and months after ASM 692. This arc must occur before SuSMTU 5.

Then comes All-New X-Men Special #1/Indestructible Hulk Special #1/Superior Spider-Man #1 -- a crossover previously noted in my All-New X-Men post.

Then I have the Uncanny Avengers #7-22 arc. Why here rather than where Col_Fury has it? Superior Spider-Man is in his new costume in this arc, and he is a member in good standing with the Avengers. So I placed him here after A5 14-17. Also, the Peak appears in A5 17 and it's destroyed in this UA arc. (Of course, the Peak reappears during Infinity, so maybe that's not a valid clue.)
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Michael » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:33 am

Paul, what about Spock's appearance in Deadpool 8-12? When does that take place?

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:06 am

All-New X-Men #1-8 is a two-day arc. Because Ororo is at the Jean Grey School, this story must occur after W&X 19 and probably after W&X 23. Because Beast mutates in ANX 5, this arc must occur after SECA 37, AvSM 16, NM3 50, AOU 10 (24-32), and NA3 6. Because of Rachel’s chronology, this story must occur after X:L2 12. Madam Web sees a scene from this arc as a future vision in ASM 695. This arc must occur before W&X 24, VENOM2 33, A+X 7, NA3 7, UA 5, and XL2 15.

Since Ororo cuts her hair in W&X 24, that issue must occur between ANX 8 and 9.

There is tight continuity between Uncanny X-Men v3 #1-9, All-New X-Men #9-14, and Iron Man v5 #5 (14-20)-8. I believe all those comics occur over the course of four days. UX3 3-4 cross over with ANX 9-11. Iron Man appears on Earth in UX3 3 but by ANX 11 he's in space. He leaves for space in IM5 5 (14-20), a segment that occurs weeks after IM5 5 (1-13). IM5 6-8 follow right up from there. UX3 9 must occur before X-Men: Legacy v2 #15.

The original roster of the Uncanny Avengers appears in ANX 12-14, so UA 5-6 should occur after this point. Because Sunfire is a member of the Uncanny Avengers in C&X 10, UA 5-6 must occur before C&X 10. In UA 5, Logan notes that he “just” buried Daken, so this story occurs after UXFOR 35, although it can’t happen “just” after. UA 5-6 probably occur after TB2 7.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:08 am

Paul, what about Spock's appearance in Deadpool 8-12? When does that take place?
I don't know exactly. I don't have those issues of Deadpool.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Astonishing X-Men v3 #57-58 happens on Christmas. This is likely the same December as seen in Hawkguy v5 #6 & 17 and Young Avengers v2 #7-13. Northstar is having immigration problems.

#59 Northstar still has immigration problems, soon-ish after #58. One day, happens right before the X-Termination crossover.

#60-61 crosses over with X-Treme X-Men v2 #13 & AoA v2 #14.

#62-65 is a month after #61; Iceman and Kitty are still dating, so after W&X 24 and before Battle of the Atom.

#66-67 is a day or three after #65.

#68 Northstar gets an immigration hearing. Iceman's still mopey from freezing New York and murdering a bunch of people back in #62-65.

I'm not seeing any mention of Wolverine's healing factor in any of the later issues, so I guess they all happen before he loses his powers.

I'm hoping to go through everything again and reshuffle some stuff. Thanks, everyone!
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:48 pm

A couple of things:

Cap's suit seems to be all over the place. He "changes" into the new suit at least twice; once in Avengers v5 #1 and again in Cap v7 after he returns from Dimension Z. I'm going to assume he alternates between the various suits until he finally settles into the new one.

Ignoring Cap's suit might let us move Uncanny Avengers #1-4 earlier as Antonio suggests, which should let YA2 start earlier, and possibly let HAWK5 6 happen where the Index placed it (near ASTONX3 57-58).

Still shuffling!
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:20 am

Michael wrote:what about Spock's appearance in Deadpool 8-12? When does that take place?
DPOOL5 1-6 & 8-12 features Octavius while he's on the outs with the Avengers (so after SuSM 10), before he gets his new suit (so before SuSM 11-13). DPOOL5 10 (where Octavius appears) was published the same month as SuSM 10.

So, between SuSM 10-11! :D

We'll have to ignore Cap's suit in DPOOL5 6, though.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:06 am

So twelve issues of DPOOL5 happen between two issues of SuSM? How long do these twelve issues take to transpire?
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:30 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:So twelve issues of DPOOL5 happen between two issues of SuSM? How long do these twelve issues take to transpire?
Col_Fury wrote:DPOOL5 1-6 happens over a few days. Cap appears in his classic suit, Dr. Strange appears re-powered, the Avengers appear: Hulk, Iron Man (black & gold), Thor, Black Widow, Cap, Hawkeye (new suit). Deadpool gets the spirit of a SHIELD agent stuck in his head.

DPOOL5 7 takes place in the past.

DPOOL5 8-12 happens over a few days, and picks up right after #6. Spider-Man (Octavius) and Daredevil appear. Octavius is "on the outs" with the Avengers, so after Superior Spider-Man #10.
A little under a week.
Paul Bourcier wrote:The probation is lifted in Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #1, which leads into SuSM 2, then Scarlet Spider v2 #20-23. This all should occur before A5 14 since Otto is back with the Avengers in A5 15.

Then I have Otto in Superior Carnage #1-5, a one-day arc that must occur after ScSp2 20 and before Superior Carnage Annual #1.

Next, Otto's in the arc of Avengers v5 #14-17. Spidey's reputation is restored in the Avengers' opinion. (He erroneously appears in his old costume in issue #14, but that is corrected in issue #15.)

I placed Otto in A+X #11/2 next.

Superior Spider-Man #17-19 form a one-day arc that occurs weeks (?) after ASM 697 and months after ASM 692. This arc must occur before SuSMTU 5.

Then comes All-New X-Men Special #1/Indestructible Hulk Special #1/Superior Spider-Man #1 -- a crossover previously noted in my All-New X-Men post.

Then I have the Uncanny Avengers #7-22 arc. Why here rather than where Col_Fury has it? Superior Spider-Man is in his new costume in this arc, and he is a member in good standing with the Avengers. So I placed him here after A5 14-17. Also, the Peak appears in A5 17 and it's destroyed in this UA arc. (Of course, the Peak reappears during Infinity, so maybe that's not a valid clue.)
Ignoring the Peak, if the probation is lifted in Superior Team-Up #1, couldn't UA 7-22 happen after that and before A5 14-17?
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:38 pm

Man, I am way behind the ball on things.

OK, Uncanny X-Men v3 #15 in an Inhumanity tie-in. Since Inhumanity happens on the heels of Infintity, that means UX3 14 is pre-INFINITY. Since UX3 13 is a Battle of the Atom tie-in, that means BotA is pre-INFINITY. Wolverine doesn't have his healing powers during BotA (he loses them in W5 1-13), so there you go.

W5 1-13 -> BotA -> INFINITY

GOTG3 8-9 are INFINITY tie-ins. GOTG3 12-13 are Trial of Jean Grey tie-ins. ToJG is post-INFINITY. ANX 22-24 are also ToJG tie-ins. So, ANX 22 is post-INFINITY.

UX3 14 shows Cyclops' team waiting for Kitty to show up. ANX 18-21 is where Kitty goes to Cyclops' team. UX3 15 already has Kitty with Cyclops' team, and is an Inhumanity tie-in. So,

W5 1-13 / W6 1-FB
ANX 16-17 / X4 5-6 / UX3 12-13 / W&X 36-37 / X:BotA 1-2
UX3 14
ANX 18-21
INFINITY

Right? No.

Infinity #1 shows Kitty is still at Wolverine's school. So, INFINITY has to happen before she defects to Cyclops' team. So,

W5 1-13 / W6 1-FB
ANX 16-17 / X4 5-6 / UX3 12-13 / W&X 36-37 / X:BotA 1-2 (1-28)
INFINITY
X:BotA 2 (29-31)
UX3 14 (same day as X:BotA 2 (29-31))
ANX 18-21
UX3 15 (INHUMANITY)

Right?
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:17 pm

UX3 14 must occur between pages 28 and 29 of X:BOTA 2. I imagine Kitty had thoughts of leaving the Jean Grey School after the bulk of BOTA. Then UX3 18 (40-11)-FB happens -- Magik teleports Kitty to the New Xavier School, Kitty and Scott argue then come to an understanding. I imagine Kitty asks Scott if she and the young X-Men can defect to the NXS BTS at this point. Then the students and faculty of the NXS are waiting for their arrival in UX3 14. In the last bit of X:BOTA 2, Cyclops and Magik retrieve Kitty and the young X-Men from the JGS and bring them to the NXS.

ANX 18 and more UX3 18-FB pick up from the end of X:BOTA 2.

I think a gap appears between ANX 18 and 19-21.

I have Kitty and Monica Rappaccini in UX3 15 before ANX 19. Terrigenesis appears to be news to at least some of the folks at the NXS in UX3 15 but not in ANX 19.

Kitty's appearance at the JGS in Infinity #1 is perplexing, but I suppose it's not out of the question for her to be visiting (or retrieving something). And it's her only (brief) appearance in the Infinity series; other X-Men from the JGS appear later in the Infinity crossover.

So I have...
X:BOTA 2 (1-28)
UX3 18 (4-11)-FB
UX3 14
ANX 18 and UX3 18 (12:2-18)-FB
Infinity
UX3 15
ANX 19-21
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:16 am

Fantastic Four #609 is a one-day story. Publication order suggests placement before FF #21. I have this story before AVX.

FF #21 is a one-day story. I also have this issue before AVX.

Fantastic Four #610/FF #22 is a two-day crossover with lots of interweaving. General publication order places Pym here between SECA 37 and AAC 38. Publication order places the FF here after ASM 693 and Spidey here between ASM 694 and AvSM 12. Publication order places Cap here between CA6 18 and 19. TV reports flood in about the purchase of Barbuda by AIM, and Reed is tasked by Obama to investigate. This crossover must occur before A5 4, given that Barbuda is a UN-recognized nation in that Avengers story.

Fantastic Four #611 is a one-day story. Doom returns to 616. Doom must appear here before Winter Soldier #1. Given Doom's absence from Latveria in DD3 13-14, this story probably occurs after DD3 15.

I have FF #23 the day after FF 611 (and the FB in FF 23 the day before FF 611).

Fantastic Four v4 and FF v2 are set while the Fantastic Four are off in space-time (with Reed coming back to Earth every now and then to deal with the incursions) and Ant-Man's replacement FF are active. I'll get to that run hopefully tonight.
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