AVX to INFINITY

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:46 pm

Fantastic Four v4 #1-3 / FF v2 #1-3 (and the first 2 pages of FF2 4) take place over the course of seven days, ending on New Year's Day. Early issues of Avengers Arena must occur at this time since that series starts on Christmas Eve.

FF4 1-3 / FF2 1-3 occurs at least a month before FF4 4. The arc occurs after A+X 6/2. In ASM 695, Madame Web sees a scene from FF2 3 as a vision (future? I think past). Reed must appear in FF4 3 before NA3 7.

FF v2 #4 (3-20)-FF v2 #8 occur over the course of six days. The FF probably appear here before AvSM 17. She-Hulk probably appears here before ASTONX3 59, and Ant-Man and Ms. Thing probably appear here before XF 253.

Fantastic Four v4 #4-5 occur over the course of four days.

Fantastic Four v4 #6-9 occur over the course of two days.

I have She-Hulk and Ms. Thing appearing in Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #1 around this time.

FF v2 #9 and its FBs take place over an indeterminate amount of time.

FF v2 #10-13 occur over the course of two days. Ahura must appear here after YA2 13. Then FF v2 #14-15 pick up from there, going into the next day and overlapping with Fantastic Four v4 #15, which itself picks up from Fantastic Four v4 #10-14. The crossover continues with FF v2 16 and Fantastic Four v4 #16 over the next few days. Because Black Bolt is with the Inhumans, this crossover must occur before Infinity. Thing probably appears here before Revolutionary War: Omega #1.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:08 am

Lots of shuffling!

Some stuff has been taken out; it looks like Storm's chronology is going to need to be reworked.

Anything look funny? Speak up! :)

AVENGERS vs. X-MEN
AvX: Consequences 1 (1 - 4) (before Xavier’s funeral)
Captain Marvel v8 1 (Carol becomes Captain Marvel)
SECA 29-37
(red) HULK 53-57
CA6 15-18
Daredevil v3 12-16 (Carol already Captain Marvel) (Wasp still “dead”) (Doom not back yet)
FF 610 / F.F. 22
AACAD 38-39
CA6 19
Avengers v4 31-34 (Wasp returns)
Mighty Thor 18-22 / JiM 642-645, 646 (1-5)
New Avengers v2 31-34 (Carol already Captain Marvel)
UA 1-4 (Uncanny Avengers form) (Xavier’s funeral)
AvX: Consequences 1 (5 - 20), 2-5 (Carol already Captain Marvel)
XXX2 7.1
HAWK5 7 (Kate still around)
YA2 1-6 (Uncanny Avengers appear) (Kate gone)
CM8 2-6
Dark Avengers 175-190 (old Iron Man suit)
Avengers Assemble 9-11 (old Iron Man suit)
NM3 50
FF 611 (Doom returns)
F.F. 23
WSOL 1-6 (Doom already back)
W2 314-317
Indestructible Hulk 1-2 (black & gold Iron Man)
Avengers Assemble Annual 1 (black & gold Iron Man)
NA3 1-3 (black & gold Iron Man suit) (Mr. Fantastic on Earth)
A5 1 (start), A5 2-FB
X:L2 1-6
CM8 7-8
INDH 3-5
AARENA 1-12 (Christmas)
ASTONX3 57-58 (Christmas)
YA2 7-13 (while arena kids are missing) (Kate returns)
HAWK5 6 & 17 (says December 13-19, but Kate isn’t back until YA2 13)
YA2 14-15 (New Year’s Eve)
FF4 1-3 / F.F.2 1-3 (New Year’s Day) (Mr. Fantastic “in space”) (replacement FF form)
AARENA 13
TB3 1
A5 (end), 2-5 (Parker is Spider-Man)
AARENA 14-18
WSOL 7-14
INDH 6-8
PWZ3 1-5 (Parker is Spider-Man)
ASM 695-700 (Octavius becomes Spider-Man) (Uncanny Avengers appear)
Avenging Spider-Man 15.1
Superior Spider-Man 1-3
DD3 17-22
Red She-Hulk 58-60
AVENGSM 16 (Beast cat-like)
JiM 646 (6-20), 647-650 (Octavius is Spider-Man) (Iron Man -VO)
F.F.2 4-8
AVENGSM 17 (replacement FF appear)
TB3 2-11
Avengers Assemble 12-13
TB3 12-13
IM6 1-5 (1-13)
Red She-Hulk 61-67
ASTONX3 59-61 / XXX2 13 / AOA2 14
A5 6-9 (Octavius is Spider-Man)
SUPSM 4-6
SCARSPI2 16
AVENGSM 18-19
JiM 651
SUPSM 7-10 (Octavius on Avengers probation)
NA3 4-6 (Iron Man on Earth) (Beast cat-like) (Mr. Fantastic “in space”)
SECA2 1-2
AVENGSM 20-21 (SHIELD’s Secret Avengers appear)
DPOOL5 1-6 & 8-12 (Octavius on Avengers probation)
AVENGSM 22 (Punisher appears)
SUPSM 11-13 (Octavius gets new suit)
WSOL 15-19
FF4 4-5
DD3 23-27 (before AAI 1 for Pym) (black & gold Iron Man)
HAWK5 8-16, 18-22 (Mockingbird just fine) (Hawk & S-W break up)
CM8 9-12 (Iron Man on Earth)
CM8 13-14 / AASS 16-17
INDH 9-10
DD3 28-30
SECA2 3-8 (Mockingbird goes missing) (Hill promoted)
ANX 1-8 (Beast becomes ape-like)
W&X 24
X3 1-3
AoU 10 (Beast ape-like, Iron Man on Earth)
INDH 11-15
AoU 10AI
AAI 1-6
UX3 1-2
ANX 9-11 / UX3 3-4 (Iron Man on Earth)
UX3 5-9
IM6 5 (14-20), 6-8 (Iron Man leaves for space)
ANX 11-14 (Iron Man in space) (Hill in charge of SHIELD) (original UA roster)
GOTG3 1-7
IM6 9-16 (1-10)
UX3 10-11
FF4 6-9
ANX 15
UA 5-6 (UA roster expands)
A5 10-13 (Iron Man in space) (Octavius on Avengers probation)
NA3 7 (Beast ape-like) (Mr. Fantastic “in space”)
SUPSMTU 1-2 / SCARSPI2 20-23 (Octavius’ probation lifted)
F.F.2 9
C&XFOR 1-14 (expanded UA roster)
UXFOR2 1-12
C&XFOR 15-17
CA7 1-11 (days before UA 7-22)
UXFOR2 12-15 (Storm in LA)
UA 7-22 (Octavius w/Avengers) (Storm in LA)
C&XFOR 18-19 / UXFOR2 16-17 (end of Storm in LA)
ASTONX3 62-68
JiM 652-655
A5 14-17
W5 1-13
Fearless Defenders 1-6
SUPSM 17-19
ANX Spec / INDH Spec / SUPSM Spec
Fearless Defenders 7-9
FF4 10-16 / F.F.2 10-16 (Mr. Fantastic returns from “in space”)
W6 1-FB
X3 4
IM6 16 (11-20), 17 (Iron Man returns from space)
INDH@ 1 (Iron Man back from space)
ANX 16-17 / X3 5-6 / UX3 12-13 / W&X 36-37 / X:BotA 1-2 (1-28)
UX3 18 (4-11)-FB
UX3 14
X:BotA 2 (29-31)
ANX 18 / UX3 18 (12:2-18)-FB
NA3 8 (Iron Man returned “days ago”) (Mr. Fantastic back from “in space”)
INFINITY


Stuff that still needs to get filled in:

A+X #1-???
Gambit v5 #1-17
Morbius v2 1-9
Nova v5 #1-8
Savage Wolverine #1-???
Scarlet Spider v2 #5-15, 17-19
Superior Foes of Spider-Man #1-???
Thor: God of Thunder #1-12
Venom v2 #22-???
Wolverine & the X-Men #25-35
X-Factor #246-???
X-Men: Legacy v2 #7-???
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:21 am

Col_Fury wrote:
Fearless Defenders!

#1-6 takes three or five days to happen. He doesn’t appear, but Cap’s redesigned costume does. Also, She-Hulk is wearing her black & red FF uniform. Also, Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel.
Elektra probably appears here after TB2 12.
Because Storm has a Mohawk here, this arc must occur after W&X 24.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:30 am

HULK #53-57 take three days to happen. Flashbacks in #53 involving Rick Jones, She-Hulk, Lyra,. Thunderbolt Ross, and Machine Man occur one and two weeks before this arc. Publication order places Cap here between CM 8 1 and CA6 15. The arc must occur before Thunderbolt Ross's appearance in TB2 2-FB (1-2) and probably before Marvel Knights Hulk #1.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:35 am

Mighty Thor #18-22 / Journey into Mystery #642-645 is one story arc that appears to take place over two days. Loki probably appears here before YA2 10-FB and Marvel Now Point One #1/4. Publication order places Thor here before A4 32 and perhaps before CA6 19 (19:1)-FB, which occurs a week before CA6 19.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:53 am

Paul and Fury,

I believe Infinity should come before Battle of the Atom.

During the attack on the Jean Grey School, Wolverine is what appears to be mortally wounded by Corvus Glaive. Based on the clues in the attack, Infinity takes place after Beast's mutation, while Wolverine would still need his healing factor, after Storm gets her mohawk, and while Kitty is at the Jean Grey School.

While any titles involving the Terrigen cloud take place after Infinity, but as the cloud reaches them, over a period of time. The Uncanny X-Men issue takes place when the cloud reaches Paris.

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Somebody » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:14 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:Mighty Thor #18-22 / Journey into Mystery #642-645 is one story arc that appears to take place over two days. Loki probably appears here before YA2 10-FB and Marvel Now Point One #1/4.
That's absolutely cast-iron certain. The Loki in "Everything Burns" is Loki II/Kid Loki. The Loki in the Young Avengers v2 series (including the .1 set-up story) is Loki III/Ikol (note that the Loki: Agent of Asgard series is absolutely clear, both in-story and in recap pages, that it stars "a third Loki", not Loki I revived. At least for the first year... [misleading spoilery hints ahoy!])

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:33 pm

Jason Doty wrote:
During the attack on the Jean Grey School, Wolverine is what appears to be mortally wounded by Corvus Glaive.
Yes, he is badly wounded in NA3 9, and I noticed that he's nowhere to be found for the rest of Infinity. Hmm.

So if Logan has his powers and Kitty hasn't left the school in Infinity, those factors would argue for BOTA to occur prior to Infinity.

I think the main issue arguing for BOTA occurring before Infinity was UX3 15, an Infinity tie-in that occurs after Kitty and young Jean have joined the New Xavier School. As Jason notes, some time could pass between the fall of Attilan and the arrival of Terrigen Mist in Paris. Though there's that nagging issue of the NXS students not knowing about the worldwide Terrigen issue. If a lot of time passes, under what rock were these students? Is the NXS that out of touch? (Heck, Kitty and Jean already encountered a Terrigen coccoon in Inhumans: The Awakening #1.)

Are there clues that inform the relative placement of BOTA and Ifinity?
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:56 pm

Uncanny X-Men #15 isn't an "Infinity" tie-in, It's an "Inhumanity tie-in" and I don't recall seeing either Kitty or Jean in Inhumans: The Awakening #1

Just spit-balling here. Savage Wolverine Arc->Infinity-> Wolverine loses healing factor ->Battle of the Atom->Wolverine gets new armor uniform.

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:28 pm

Wolverine loses his healing factor in W5 1-13. W6 1-FB shows that Wolverine's recovery from the injuries he sustained in W5 13 took three weeks. Meaning, he can't make any appearances in other books for three weeks after he loses his powers.

Avengers Assemble #21-25 happens days after INFINITY ends; the Avengers are looking for missing people (Spider-Girl's social studies teacher) who have been missing for days (meaning, AASS 21 happens days after INFINITY ends). Wolverine appears, and explicitly does not have his healing powers. For what it's worth, the Avengers are tracking the Terrigen Mists, and their map shows outbreaks in France.

If Wolverine were to lose his powers after INFINITY,

INFINITY -> W5 1-13 -> W6 1-FB (three weeks after W5 13) -> BOTA (& the aftermath, about a week) -> AASS 21-25 (days after INFINITY ends) ~ UX3 15 (outbreaks in France)

That's roughly a month from INFINITY to AASS 21, and yet AASS 21 is only days after INFINITY. Granted, IM6 20.INH happens "two months" after the initial Terregensis outbreaks, but Iron Man is surprised that it's still happening, not that it's normal for it to still be happening two months later.

If Wolverine loses his powers before INFINITY,

W5 1-13 -> W6 1-FB (three weeks after W5 13) -> BOTA (& the aftermath, about a week) -> INFINITY -> AASS 21-25 (days after INFINITY ends) ~ UX3 15 (outbreaks in France)

Of course, that would mean Wolverine can't have his powers during INFINITY. Wolverine is injured in NA3 9, but luckily we don't see him heal from it, and we don't see him for the rest of the crossover. That allows us to assume he had to recover without his healing factor.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:46 pm

the bulk of Morbius #1-9 happens over a few days. There are flashbacks that happen four days before issue #1, so the whole thing lasts about a week.

Spider-Man (Octavius) appears in #6-7, after he tweaked the Spider-suit, but before he gets the new suit. Published the same months as Superior 11-14, but because of the suit, before #11. So, between Superior #10-11. Published after DPOOL5 12, and #6 was the same month as AVENGSM 22. So let's say after AVENGSM 22 and before SUPSM 11.

I just realized I didn't include Superior Foes of Spider-Man on the list. Oops!
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Jason Doty » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:56 pm

Are all of these time frames in comics references?

Spider-Girls Social studies teacher has been missing days since his abduction, not since the fall of Attilan. How much time passes after the fall of a giant city on New York does it take for schools to reopen?

And the reason for his abduction, would be his transformation by terrigenesis, and that would depend on when and where he was hit by the cloud. I'm all for using the time frames given in a given comic as evidence, but not over other clues presented in another.

In the case of Inhumanity, we can make time by spreading this out rather then condensing it, giving us a wider range to work with, which, in my opinion would help us accommodate more of the various comics inconsistencies.

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:48 pm

Col_Fury, are you incorporating the discussion about Wolverine's recent chronology
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9336&p=44866&hilit= ... ogy#p44866 into the draft spine?
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:04 pm

Jason Doty wrote:Spider-Girls Social studies teacher has been missing days since his abduction, not since the fall of Attilan.
True.
Jason Doty wrote:How much time passes after the fall of a giant city on New York does it take for schools to reopen?
I don't know, that wasn't covered in the comics. The Marvel Universe New York is pretty used to this kind of thing by now, I'd imagine, so not very long I'd say. :)
Jason Doty wrote:And the reason for his abduction, would be his transformation by terrigenesis, and that would depend on when and where he was hit by the cloud.
Yep. But the cloud started in New York, he's in New York, so I'd think he was hit pretty early on. In theory.

Also, the time from being exposed to the Terrigen Mists and being transformed seems to vary wildly from person to person. In Thunderbolts, the effects are seen almost immediately. In Avengers Assemble, the process seems to take days. Maybe it depends on how "recent" the Inhumans are in the person's family tree? And the kids that were exposed in Inhumanity: the Awakening; they're both affected but neither of the parents were? What, were they both the result of the mother having an affair or something?

Speaking of Inhumanity: the Awakening #1-2, I'm not seeing Shadowcat or (time-displaced) Marvel Girl either.
Jason Doty wrote:I'm all for using the time frames given in a given comic as evidence, but not over other clues presented in another.
Same here! :) In this case, though, I'm not convinced Wolverine still has his healing factor in NA3 9. We only see him get injured; we don't see his recovery and he doesn't appear for the rest of the crossover (because he's too hurt to keep fighting?).

What do others think?
Paul Bourcier wrote:Col_Fury, are you incorporating the discussion about Wolverine's recent chronology
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9336&p=44866&hilit= ... ogy#p44866 into the draft spine?
I was planning to compare after I got caught up on reading Thor: God of Thunder (near the end of the comics from this period I haven't read yet). Speaking of which:

Iron Man appears on Earth in early issues of Thor:GoT. #1-11 is one big story that spans an indeterminate amount of time. Thor returns to Earth in #12, and everyone mentions that he's been gone for a while. Iron Man's BTS in #12, but he could very likely be in space.

Thor:GoT needs to start before Iron Man leaves for space. I need to go through the list to see which comics Thor appears in; hopefully there's a big chunk where Thor isn't making any appearances. If needed, JiM 651 can be moved earlier to right after 650 (Thor appears in 651) or later, depending. Thor mentions in #12 that he and Sif have drifted apart, so likely after JiM 651? (they were having sexy adult time in JiM 651)

Also, it looks like INFINITY happens between Thor:GoT 12-13.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:03 pm

Looking at AgentFelix0013's chronology, and I'm wondering why All-New X-Factor is placed a year out of publication order? Is this to accommodate Havok's face?

All of X-Factor 235-262 takes place before AvX: Consequences?

I see he placed INFINITY before Battle of the Atom, but says up front he hasn't ready any Avengers titles.

I'm going to go re-read some X-Factor issues in the next few days, I think. Unless someone beats me to it! :)
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