AVX to INFINITY

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury »

It should in the tail-end of the AVX chronology (but it's not), during AVX 12. Here's the relevant section of Wolverine's current MCP chronology:

WOLVERINE/"LOGAN"/JAMES HOWLETT
……
[AVX 12 (11 - 30)]
[W&X 18 (19 - 20)]
[W&X 19]
[W&X 21]
[W&X 22]
[W&X 23]
[DD3 13-FB]
[XF 238]
[AVX 12 (31 - 35)]
[AVX:C 1 (1 - 4)]
……

W&X 21-23 are also currently in Iceman's, Storm's and Kitty Pryde's chronologies. Oh, and W&X 23 is also in Doctor Strange's.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Siabod »

I have an issue with the placement of Uncanny Avengers #5

I see that the placement was because of the expansion of the roster in #5, where as in All New X-Men #11 its the smaller original roster

However, In All New X-men #13 we see Havok (possibly in real time) on a screen delivering his speech from Uncanny Avengers #5
So at least UA #5 comes around the same time as ANX #13 if not earlier. I think the sequence from UA meeting ANX in #11 to meeting again in #13 happens over abut 6 hours.

There is a gap in ANX #11 "Later". How much later, hours? a day? Where wolverine could appear in UA #5

I hope this makes sense

PS: thanks for the above, I'll have to remember to check to character chronologies next time
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury »

Ah! Yeah, that looks like a goof. Give me a bit to get caught up on some other things, and I'll look through my notes to see if that was addressed (my guess is it wasn't). I theory, during ANX 11 seems like the best bet.

Re: PS
Sure thing! Until the books are fully added into the MCP, things aren't complete, both in these maps and in the listings. I know we skipped things like A+X in the chronologies for now, and some other things slipped through the maps (like W&X 21-23). EVENTUALLY, everything will get smoothed out (that's what we're in the middle of with Secret Wars).

It's a process, but it's a fun process! :)
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Siabod »

Hi

I know that UA #7-22 has/is causing a lot if chronology issues...

But I thought I'd add another in case it might help the situation or least help placing some others.
In #22 Tony Stark recognises his "brother" Arno. However he doesn't discover him until IM #17 which is placed much later.
Tony is on Earth (in person, not drone) and in his black and gold armor
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury »

Finally had a chance to look into this.

I moved UA 5-6 to during ANX 11-14. The Havok scene in ANX 13 has to be a flashback; Mystique and Sabretooth must be watching a recording on the news.

Also, that Arno in UA 22 is Iron Man 2020 from the future. Lots of other future characters appear in the issue as well. Iron Man has met Iron Man 2020 before; that's why he recognizes him (also, Arno says Kang destroyed his future in UA 22). So there's that.

Also also, we don't see Iron Man take his helmet off in UA 22 (or any other fleshy bits); he's always in his suit. It's established elsewhere that Iron Man is controlling drones on Earth while he's away in space (talking remotely as if he's there, controlling the drone suit in realt time, etc.), and this easily falls in that category.

So as far as Iron Man is concerned, the current UA 7-22 placement is just fine. Actually, given the appearance of Iron Man 2020, UA 7-22 almost needs to be before Tony meets the modern-day Arno. Otherwise, we'd expect a very different reaction from Tony in UA 22.

Thanks again, Siabod!
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Siabod »

Thanks
You're right about Tony in #22, but you do see his face in #21

Unrelated matter
just read Marvel Knights: X-Men, and it seems Wolverine has his healing factor. He even mentions his healing factor is working. However it is placed after Wolverine volume 5 #1-13 where he loses his needing factor
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury »

Re: Marvel Knights X-Men
You're right! It's been moved.

Re: Tony's stupid face
Ugh. You're right. Hmn.

Maybe he made an emergency trip back to fight Kang? Maybe it's a hologram face to calm his friends down to make them think he's back? Maybe the placement's wrong?

At some point we'll probably have to sit down and look at all the clues again to see how things shake out.

Thanks, Siabod!
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Sataniel »

Marvel NOW! Point One seems to be missing (outside of Nova part being in AvX chronology). The segment that leads directly into beginning of Nova #6 is said to be a day ago, from a framing story. In aforementioned framing story, Maria Hill wants to talk with Fury Jr. about Avengers Initiative (so probably between Secret Avengers series). GotG segment is a distant flashback. Young Avengers segment takes place after Loki's run in JiM, but before new Young Avengers, FF segment takes place somewhere before it begins. There is Doom-themed in it, but no word about Doom's status itself. I'm not sure about X-Force segment. YA, FF and X-Force segments aren't chronologically placed in regards to the main events and may happen in the future (framing story has a time traveller telling stories).

The first arc of X-Men Legacy Vol. 2 seems to be placed way too late. #1 is directly stated to start at the time of Xavier's dead so during AvX and #2 shouldn't be long later (I'm not sure about how it works in regards to other X-Titles placement though, as it features an appearance by Wolverine's X-Men.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Clive_Reston »

A little note on HAWK4 chronology:

You've already covered one bit of weird sequencing (#7 takes place about two months before #6, #17 is immediately after #6), but Hawkeye v4 #8-13 and Annual #1 repeatedly loop through the same events from multiple perspectives, which will be relevant for the chronologies of Clint and Barney Barton, Lucky, Kate Bishop, and a few supporting cast members. It goes like this, as far as I can tell, skipping the flashbacks to the childhoods of Kaziu and the Barton brothers:

8 (3-4:1) ~ 9 (1-2) Clint, Penny and the exes
8 (4:2-20)
9 (3-18) before Kate goes to the party
10 (1, 4, 7, 10, 14-17)
10 (18-19) ~ 11 (1) Lucky hears Clint and Kate's conversation
9 (19-20) ~ 10 (20) Clint talks to Grills, then goes downstairs; Kaziu kills Grills
11 (2-5)
13 (1-5)
12 (1-2) ~ 13 (6) Barney's first phone call to Clint, seen from both perspectives (each with the other one BTS)
11 (6-8) ~ 12 (3-5) Barney gets beaten up, Lucky attacks
11 (9) ~ 13 (7-8) Lucky hears Clint talking with the cops
13 (9)
11 (10) ~ 13 (10) Lucky hears Clint and Kate's "collar stays" conversation
13 (11-14)
11 (11-17)
11 (18) ~ 13 (15) Clint finds the shoe
12 (11-16)
12 (17) ~ 13 (16) Barney's second phone call to Clint, again seen from both perspectives
12 (20) ~ 13 (17) Clint and Barney's reunion
@1 (1)
11 (19) ~ 13 (18:1-18:3) ~ @1 (2-3) Kate leaves with Lucky (in #13, Clint and Kate are OP but audible; in the others, Barney is BTS)
13 (18:4-20)
11 (20)
@1 (4-28)
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Russ Chappell »

Col_Fury wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:06 pm ...
Savage Wolverine #6-8
HAWK4 7 (Kate still around)
YA2 1-6 (Uncanny Avengers appear) (Kate gone)
CM8 2-6
NM3 50
FF 611 (Doom returns)
F.F. 23
WSOL 1-6 (Doom already back)
W2 314-317
Deadpool vs. Thanos 1-4
Indestructible Hulk 1-2 (black & gold Iron Man)
Avengers Assemble Annual 1 (black & gold Iron Man)
NA3 1-3 (black & gold Iron Man suit) (Mr. Fantastic on Earth)
A5 1 (start), A5 2-FB
A+X 1/2
X:L2 1-6
CM8 7-8
A+X 4
INDH 3-5
Venom v2 27.1
SCARSPI2 12
DD:DARK NIGHT 1-3
AARENA 1-12 (Christmas)
ASTONX3 57-58 (Christmas)
YA2 7-13 (while arena kids are missing) (Kate returns)
HAWK4 6 & 17 (says December 13-19, but Kate isn’t back until YA2 13)
YA2 14-15 (New Year’s Eve)
...
Why are we saying that HAWK4 6 takes place after HAWK4 7?
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury »

HAWK4 6 says it happens in December, while HAWK4 7 says it happens in October. HAWK4 17 also says it happen in the same December as HAWK4 6.

This series has a lot of timeline goofiness/flashbacks/overlaps as part of its structure. For whatever reason, HAWK4 7 is a flashback tale set before the previous issue (maybe it was on purpose to accommodate YA2?).
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Russ Chappell »

Col_Fury wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:25 am HAWK4 6 says it happens in December, while HAWK4 7 says it happens in October.
I understand that, but you could just as easily say that HAWK4 7 happens 10 months after HAWK4 6. This is where using a calendar as the MEANS to place stories, rather than a TOOL, can get us in trouble.

Do me a favor and read the stories, without the benefit of a calendar, and see which way reads better.

1. In HAWK4 6, Clint appears to hear Grills use the name Hawkguy for the first time. "Hawk...Guy?" Yet in HAWK4 7, Grills uses it several times.

2. In HAWK4 6, Clint tries to convince Grills that he's not an Avenger. Yet in HAWK4 7, he admits it freely.

3. Finally, there's an editorial note in HAWK4 7 that implies the story was rushed to make it topical with hurricane Sandy, which suggests that 7 was originally intended to be printed later, but got moved up. This explains the "Dec" & "Oct" references, and tells us that the editorial intent was that 7 was originally intended to occur 10 months after 6. That editor's note could later be used to explain moving issue 7 into the future, (if a reading of later issues necessitates it, calendar references aside), but moving issue 6 just doesn't read right, to me.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Col_Fury »

All good points.

For reasons I won't get in to because of spoilers, #7 can't happen after #22, so #7's going to have to go before #8 (with the exception of #17, which happens out of order, #8-22 is one big block).

How about in here somewhere:

WSOL 7-14
INDH 6-8
A:Millennium 1-4
PWZ3 1-5

Maybe before INDH 6?

Also, should it be LUCKY THE PIZZA DOG or PIZZA DOG/LUCKY? Or LUCKY/"PIZZA DOG"? When he later appears in ANHAWK and/or WCA3 he's usually called "Pizza Dog" and sometimes Lucky.
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by Russ Chappell »

The way I read it, Hawkeye says that Lucky is his name, and sometimes people just call him Pizza Dog. Therefore, LUCKY/"PIZZA DOG"
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Re: AVX to INFINITY

Post by StrayLamb »

Col_Fury wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:21 pmFor reasons I won't get in to because of spoilers, #7 can't happen after #22, so #7's going to have to go before #8 (with the exception of #17, which happens out of order, #8-22 is one big block).

How about in here somewhere:

WSOL 7-14
INDH 6-8
A:Millennium 1-4
PWZ3 1-5

Maybe before INDH 6?
That would place HAWK4 7 squarely in mid-January.

---
YA2 7-13 (while arena kids are missing) (Kate returns)
HAWK4 6 & 17 (says December 13-19, but Kate isn’t back until YA2 13)
YA2 14-15 (New Year’s Eve)
FF4 1-3 / F.F.2 1-3 (New Year’s Day) (Mr. Fantastic “in space”) (replacement FF form)
AARENA 13
TB3 1
X:L2 7
A5 1 (end), 2-5 (Parker is Spider-Man)
AARENA 14-18 (ends Jan 10)
WSOL 7-14
***HAWK4 7***
INDH 6-8
---

If HAWK4 7 is moved down the list, it should probably fall immediately before HAWK4 8.

---
FF4 4-5
X:L2 9
DD3 23-27 (before AAI 1 for Pym) (black & gold Iron Man)
*** HAWK4 7*** (Oct 29-30)
HAWK4 8-13, @ 1, 14-16, 18-22 (Mockingbird just fine) (Hawk & S-W break up) (early November)
CM8 9-12 (Iron Man on Earth)
CM8 13-14 / AASS 16-17
INDH 9-10
---
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