INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:59 am

Col_Fury wrote:
MODOK appears still working with AIM. When did he join SHIELD again?
MODOK would have to appear here before Secret Avengers v2 #12. Likely before Secret Avengers v2 #8 (14-16)-FB, the scene in which MODOK tells Snapper it's time to leave AIM.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:23 am

Yikes. SECA2 8 is pre-INFINITY, so it stands to reason that SECA2 8-FB would be pre-INFINITY as well.

Could we assume that MODOK starts thinking about leaving AIM in SECA2 8-FB, Infinity happens, DPOOL:DG happens, then MODOK actually leaves AIM in SECA2 12?

SECA2 8 has to happen before ANX 11-14, which has to happen before Wolverine loses his powers, which has to happen before DPOOL5 14-25, which has to happen before DPOOL:DG.

I guess MODOK was thinking about it for a while.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:51 am

Sorry. I meant Secret Avengers v3 #8 (14-16)-FB. This FB occurs "five weeks" before SECA3 8 and before SECA2 12.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:59 pm

Ah, cool. Thanks!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:13 pm

Finally got around to reading Revolutionary War and I agree, it's before IM6 23-28. Dark Angel loses a lot of her powers in Revolutionary War, and she's an expert/consultant in IM6 23-28.

Also in Revolutionary War, Octavius appears as Spider-Man. Thing appears, but we don't see his pants. Thor appears with Mjolnir. Iron Man appears in red & gold armor; maybe it's his space armor? The Guardians of the Galaxy appear in Paris (on Earth AGAIN?), but it seems fairly freestanding for them.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Midnighter » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:58 am

Col_Fury wrote: The Guardians of the Galaxy appear in Paris (on Earth AGAIN?), but it seems fairly freestanding for them.
They are in Earth's orbit just before Infinity and after Infinity, right?

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:35 am

Midnighter wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:The Guardians of the Galaxy appear in Paris (on Earth AGAIN?), but it seems fairly freestanding for them.
They are in Earth's orbit just before Infinity and after Infinity, right?
I don't recall at the moment, but yeah, probably. More of a side comment, but in this iteration of the group, for a team that's supposed to guard the galaxy, they seem to spend a lot of time on Earth. Maybe it's just me, and maybe I've just happened to read the comics where they're on Earth (I'm behind, obviously :) ). *shrug*

So, Punisher.

Punisher #1-2 was published the same month as Thunderbolts v3 #22. #18 was published recently, and #19-20 look to take place around Secret Wars (#20’s not out yet, and I haven’t read any Secrets Wars, but that’s the impression I get).

In #1, Punisher has already relocated to Los Angeles, and has been attacking a drug cartel for at least a little bit. He’s moved across the country to get away from the super heroes and to get a fresh start. Even though this was published at the same time as Thunderbolts, where Punisher was also appearing, I think it’s clear this takes place after Thunderbolts ends.

#1-18 are a fairly continuous chain of events, involving Punisher ending up in a South American prison for a while, being hunted by military troops (the Howling Commandos, but they’re not the group formed by Fury back in Secret Warriors, a different group), and riots in Los Angeles.

The passage of time is murky in this series. At one point the riots in Los Angeles are referred to as starting two weeks ago, and a year ago. I think the “year” thing is more of a real world publication reference, because the super heroes keep getting referenced as “going to deal with the riots soon,” but they never do. Rioting for more than a week or two is pushing it in a world with 17 Avengers teams, I think.

ANYWAY, Electro appears in early issues (before Punisher goes to prison), Black Widow appears in some earlier issues (right before Punisher goes to prison), and Sam Wilson appears as Captain America in some later issues (after Punisher gets out). I’m not seeing many (if any) spots for Punisher to appear in another book during this series.

Does Punisher appear during the Original Sin crossover? Axis? I see he’s in some issues of Wolverines (3 & 13) and Black Widow from earlier this year.

That’s a long way of saying that I think this series starts at least after Original Sin. MAYBE.

Andrew Forson appears in charge of AIM in early issues (before Punisher goes to prison), working with Superia. What happens to Forson, Superia and AIM in Avengers World, again?
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Jason Doty » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:55 pm

Punisher has a prominent role in Original sin, and I believe he was picked up from Los Angeles, but at the start of Punisher v10, he has been their a short amount of time at least long enough to have breakfast buddies. So, Original Sin could possibly be before or worked in between issues of the series. His book also crosses over with Black Widow's series.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:46 pm

Electro teams up with Black Cat in ASM3 after Original Sin, right?

Speaking of Andrew Forson, he's still in charge of AIM in A5 25-28, which is after Original Sin. But what about his council? I seem to remember a story where Superia, Jude the Entropic Man, Mentallo and all of them stopped working for/with Forson. Was is SECA2 12-16? AWORLD 1-14? Am I crazy?

I haven't read any of the current Black Widow series yet.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:44 pm

There it is: Black Widow #9 overlaps with Punisher #9; overlapping scenes with repeated dialogue and everything. Punisher ends up in prison by the end of #9,so I'm positive we're after Original Sin by this point (and after Death of Wolverine; in #11 BW slyly mentions it). Both of these issues were published the same month as Original Sin #7 (of 8).

Black Widow #8 leads in to #9. #8 guest stars Winter Soldier, for what that's worth.

Black Widow #7 guest stars Daredevil, who's already in San Francisco.

Black Widow #1 is standalone, as is #2, as is #3-6. Maria Hill appears in #3-6, for what that's worth.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:43 pm

Secret Avengers v2 #12-16 (published well before Original Sin):
-MODOK defects from AIM to SHIELD
-Banner appears, working for SHIELD
-the AIM council no longer has faith in Andrew Forson
-by #16, the AIM council is no longer responding to Forson, but it’s not clear if they’re gone
-Mockingbird is finally found, but leaves with Winter Soldier and Quake to do secret missions
-Taskmaster no longer with AIM
-Mentallo is now some kind of nanobot swarm of eel-like creatures, or something

Avengers World #1-14 (before Original Sin, because of Thor’s hammer):
-Hulk working publicly with Avengers
-AIM council working with Forson; I’m seeing Superia, Graviton and Jude, but not Mentallo or Taskmaster, suggesting this happens after SECA2 12-16

Avengers v5 #25-28 (after Original Sin, thanks to Invaders):
-at least Superia is still working with AIM and Forson, so that’s nice
-alternate reality Banner imprisoned thanks to ruse by Iron Man, Hulk no longer with Avengers, 616 Banner joins Illuminati, before he becomes Doc Green

It must have been Secret Avengers that I was thinking of. Huh.

None of that particularly helps with Punisher, but I guess it does open the possibility that his series starts after Original Sin at least.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:22 am

Daredevil #2-4 happen in fairly short order, two or three days. This is still fairly early on in Daredevil’s time in San Francisco, but he’s been there for a bit at least.

#5 is mostly flashback; the present day portion is just Foggy remembering things. The flashback happens “two months ago” while Daredevil is still in New York.

Fantastic Four v5 #1-4, as noted earlier, happens in one night. She-Hulk is still in New York. The FF are kicked out of the Baxter Building.

Fantastic Four v5 #5 happens some time later. She-Hulk is the FF’s lawyer, so after her series starts (where she opens a practice on the West Coast)? Speaking of She-Hulk, she appears in New York in MA2 6-9. Should this be before her series starts?

Looks like I need to read some She-Hulk.
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Midnighter » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:03 am

She-Hulk is working in New York in her series.

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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:39 pm

Indeed!

She-Hulk #1 happens over an undefined amount of time. She-Hulk quits her old job at law firm, takes a case on the side and chats with Iron Man (which probably takes a few days), then opens her own law firm in Brooklyn some time later.

She-Hulk #2 happens soon after; She-Hulk gets a tour of the building that she's already opened her office in and hires an assistant. Happens over two days. #3 picks up from there and happens in one day (the same day as the end of #2). Dr. Doom appears; Kristoff is no longer ruler Latveria for him. #4 starts the day after that and happens over a few days. Daredevil's already in San Francisco. #5 starts on the last day of #4 and happens in a day. Shocker appears (before or after, or during? Superior Foes of Spider-Man?). #6 picks u from there, and happens over a day or two. She-Hulk finally gets some new clients.

#7 happens some time later, and is definitely after Original Sin, maybe even after Axis (Cap's old).

At this point, I hope to take a look at everything we have so far and piece something together. We'll see what happens!
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Re: INFINITY to ORIGINAL SIN

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:26 pm

Belated realization:

Punisher appears during Original Sin. In TB3 27-32, Punisher spends "six months" in prison along with Red Hulk. This gap can't happen during Original Sin because Punisher appears in that crossover.

TB3 27-32 has to wrap up before the recent Punisher series starts. Also, it looks like Original Sin happens before the recent series starts. So it looks like:

TB3 27-32 -> Original Sin -> recent Punisher series

My inclination is to ignore the "six months" business.
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