ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:29 am

Once again, I haven’t read most of these yet. I do know that some ORIGINAL SIN tie-ins happen during the crossover proper and some happen after. For now, I’ll just include everything. Also, AXIS started publication the month after ORIGINAL SIN ended publication. I’m not sure how much happens between the two.

Some of this has been previously discussed here:

http://chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/vie ... f=2&t=9336

http://chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/vie ... f=2&t=9387

http://chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/vie ... =2&t=10037

Despite appearances in Uncanny Avengers #24, lots of time has to pass after Wolverine leaves the Avengers and before AXIS. Just going by W&X2, Wolverine dies before AXIS; W&X2 10-11 is Death of Wolverine aftermath and W&X2 12 is an AXIS tie-in. Also, Wolverine is noted as dead during AXIS.

UA 24 opens with Havok’s abduction, then Wolverine chats with Rogue and Scarlet Witch, Wolverine leaves, then Rogue and Scarlet Witch are abducted, which leads right in to AXIS. The only way I can see to make this work is to call the Wolverine scene a flashback and separate it from the rest of the issue. Also, to assume that when Wolverine says they plan to attack Red Skull “tomorrow” the plan was delayed for some reason.

Loki: Agent of Asgard #6-7 are labeled as AXIS preludes, but they actually take place during the crossover.

Havok leaves the Avengers during AXIS, so any appearances of him with the Avengers has to be before AXIS (like New Warriors v5 #10-12).

ORIGINAL SIN
Thor: God of Thunder 25
FF5 6-8 (1-4)
All-New Invaders 7
Avengers v5 25-27
Avengers v5 28 / All-New Invaders 8
All-New Invaders 9-10
MA2 11-14
UX3 19-24 / ANX 26-31 / UX3 24-31 / ANX 31-36
SECA3 5-15
Elektra v? 1-11 (after SECA3 5-15 for Lady Bullseye)
Magneto v? 5-8 (after Elektra v? #1-2 for Scalphunter)
All-New X-Factor 5-13
Storm v? 1-3
Amazing X-Men v2 13
Cyclops v? 1-4
CA7 12-25 (Steve Rogers is aged, Sam Wilson becomes Cap)
NW5 10-12 (Rogers is old, Wilson is Cap, Havok w/Avengers)
UA 23 (Wolverine’s alive) (Rogers is old)
UA 24-FB (Wolverine “leaves” Avengers)
Death of Wolverine #1-4 (Wolverine dies, duh)
Storm v? 4-8
Nightcrawler v? 7
Punisher v? 1-9 / Black Widow v? 8-11 (Wolverine’s dead)
XFOR4 5-7 (after Punisher for Domino)
X3 18-22
XFOR4 8-15
W&X2 10-11 (after XFOR4 for Fantomex)
FF5 8 (11-20) - 10, @ 1 & 11 (1-14)
All-New X-Factor 14 (the “other day” before AXIS)
Magneto v? 9
UA 24-25 / Magneto v? 10 (directly before AXIS)
AXIS


Stuff that needs filling in:

All-New Ghost Rider #1-10
All-New Invaders #11-13
Amazing Spider-Man v3 #4-6
-Annual v3 #1 (after AXIS?)
Avengers v5 #29-34
Bucky Barnes: Winter Soldier #1 (after AXIS?)
Captain Marvel v9 #9-13 (after AXIS?)
Daredevil v5 #6-18
Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #1-4
Deadpool v5 #35
-Bi-Annual #1
Deadpool vs. Carnage
Deadpool vs. X-Force
Death of Wolverine: Deadpool & Captain America
Death of Wolverine: Life After Logan
Death of Wolverine: Logan Legacy #1-7
Death of Wolverine: Weapon X Program #1-5
Guardians of the Galaxy v3 #18-20
Hawkeye vs. Deadpool
Inhuman #7-8
Iron Fist: Living Weapon #1-???
Legendary Star-Lord #1-???
Ms. Marvel v3 #12-??? (after AXIS?)
New Avengers v3 #16-23
Nova v5 #18-22
Rocket Raccoon v2 #1-???
She-Hulk #7-??? (after AXIS?)
Silver Surfer v? #4-???
Spider-Man 2099 #1-4
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:46 am

Cyclops #1-11 is a fairly continuous string of events that leads directly into the Black Vortex crossover (of which #12 is a part). Almost a month passes in #4, and an undefined amount of time passes in #5-11. This is largely academic, though; the characters appearing in this series don't make appearances elsewhere at this time.
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:56 am

Well I'll start with Avengers and New Avengers.

In Avengers, Cap (not yet aged) founds out his mind was wiped by the Illuminati, and goes ape at Stark. Although bannered as an 'Original Sin' tie-in, I doubt it happens during the event, as Stark and Cap seem on good enough terms at the end of the event, and when Fury asks Cap what he saw, he replies that it doesn't matter and he'll deal with it after they solve the mystery of the Watcher's death. I'd imagine this means it's shortly after the event.

So Avengers #29 sees Cap take on Stark, and breaks his nose, amongst other things. Then, the Time Gem appears out of nowhere and transports them into the future. Then #30-33 happen 50 years, 500 years, 5000 years and 50,000 years in the future. #34 happens 'forever' in the future, and ends with Cap coming back to the present day and declaring war on the Illuminati, meaning any references to Cap declaring war on the Illuminati must happen after this issue. The passage of time between the Time Gem transporting everyone into the future, and Cap's return from the future is a little over two hours.

New Avengers #18-23 must happen shortly after this, as this is the first time the Illuminati hears about Steve's awareness of what happens to him. Stark also has a plaster on his nose and many obvious injuries across his body.

Avengers #34 is '8 months' before Time Runs Out, meaning that the passage between Original Sin and the Final Incursion is around 8.5-9 months.

Hope this helps as this is my first time actually helping out with this!
I'll do a re-read of New Avengers at some point and distinguish day breaks etc.

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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:00 am

Oh yeah and Avengers #35-44 and New Avengers #24-33 must happen after AXIS.

Not so sure about Avengers World but in #17 Smasher is found to be pregnant and in Avengers #35 her and Cannonball have a baby and are living on the Shi'Ar throneworld. Judging by how comfortable they are with the baby, I'd think that they've had the baby for at least a couple of weeks. The baby doesn't seem to have been premature, so assume that Time Runs Out begins 40 weeks after Avengers World #17, which means that it's very likely to occur before AXIS.

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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:05 am

Also in Avengers World #17, Smasher and Cannonball leave Earth, meaning any appearances made by them must go before this issue. 40 weeks actually works out at a little over 9 months, meaning that they probably left Earth before Cap's declaration of war on the Illuminati. Smasher and Cannonball do not appear in Avengers #29-34, meaning they could leave before this arc.
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:09 am

Thanks!

Avengers World #15-16 are AXIS tie-ins, aren't they? So doesn't #17 (17 comes after 16) have to happen after AXIS? Or is AWORLD 18 a flashback story?
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:11 am

Avengers World #15-16 are AXIS tie-ins but have nothing to do with any other Avengers World storylines. Avengers World #17-21 are labelled 'Before Time Runs Out' and are there to bridge the 8-month gap between Avengers #34 and Avengers #35, meaning they occur at varying points throughout those 8 months. Just re-reading #18-21 to make sure I get everything correct when I come to speaking about them.

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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:12 am

Oh damn I just realised I meant 17 instead of 18, editing my original posts to be correct.

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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:32 am

OK, then, Avengers World, properly this time.

AVENGERS WORLD #17
Smasher finds out she is pregnant. Probably between 40 and 42 weeks before Avengers #35. If Avengers #35 is exactly 8 months after Avengers #34, that means that she becomes pregnant 6-8 weeks before Avengers #34, meaning in theory this could go before Original Sin, if she does not appear during or after the event. Otherwise, Avengers #29 would have to take place a lot later than I originally thought.
Starjammers are based at the New Xavier School. I don't follow X-Men so don't know if this means anything.
There is no reference to any current events, so no limitations there.
Last page is 'months' later when the baby is born. Approximately 40 weeks after main segment and not too long before Avengers #35.
As far as I can tell this happens over one day.

AVENGERS WORLD #18-21
These issues heavily reference the Cabal, and as far as I'm aware, there's no reason to believe that Namor forms the Cabal before AXIS, so these issues probably occur after. The Cabal announce to the whole world that the world is ending, so this is not something people would easily forget or not have heard about.

Hope this helps!

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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:07 pm

All-New Invaders 6 happens during Original Sin, then picks up "three days later." There are also flashbacks and stuff mixed in there, but that's the gist.

FF5 6 starts right before Original Sin, then picks up "two days later." So the bits where Ben confronts Johnny are probably the day after Original Sin (and therefore before All-New Invaders).

FF5 6-8 are basically right after Original Sin. Some time passes in #8, but not a lot. Reed and Sue leave town for Chicago, Jim Hammond looks after the Future FOundation kids and Thing is put into Ryker's. So, maybe a day or three. #9 picks up from there, and some more time passes. A few days, MAYBE a week, but that's pushing it. #10 picks up from there, and some more time passes. This is a little more loose; at least a week, maybe more. Long enough for Ben's arm to heal, at least. The Annual picks up where #10 leaves off, and happens in a day. The Annual is referenced as recent (earlier in the week) in the Loki: AoA AXIS tie-ins. #11 picks up where #10 left off and MAYBE a day passes; Sue returns from the Annual. #12 picks up where #11 leaves off, and Valeria leaves Latveria. Of course, Valeria is still in Latveria during AXIS, so I think we're past it by this point. #13 picks up from there, Ben breaks out of Ryker's and the FF switch back to their blue suits. Reed's still tied up with other things, but we're definitely past AXIS by now; the FF are still in their red suit during AXIS.

So, where's the break? I think we're going to have to invent one somewhere in #11. The only spot is after Sue returns from Latveria and before Wyatt Wingfoot is attacked by "Hawkeye." That's between pages 14 & 15.

So, FF5 6-7 & 8-FB happen right after Original Sin. FF5 8-10 (1-9) happen shortly after that. FF5 10 (10-20), @ 1 & 11 (1-14) happen some time later, shortly before AXIS.

* * *

Elektra!

#1 happens in a day; Daredevil is referenced as already moved to San Francisco.

#2 happens on the same day as #1. Scalphunter is presumably still able to get new clone bodies here, so before Magneto #6. Taskmaster is referenced as still working with the AIM high council, so before Secret Avengers v3 #12-16. The odd thing is, Elektra #1 was published two months after Secret Avengers v2 #16. Maybe Elektra has old information?

#3 happens a day or so after #2. #4 happens on the same day #3 does. So does #5.

#6 happens a week or two after #5, and happens in a day. Lady Bullseye gets new powers. #7 happens on the same day.

#8 happens soon after #7, but not too soon. Elektra mentions it took a while for her to find where Bullseye was being held. #8 happens on the same day as #7, as does #9, and some of the Hand ninjas that Elektra killed in earlier issues are being revived. They haven’t started to rot yet, so it couldn’t have taken Elektra THAT long to find out where Bullseye was. #10 starts on the same day and goes into the next; Bullseye is put back to normal. #11 starts on the same day, then an undefined amount of time passes, enough time for SHIELD to rebuild Elektra’s crushed skull.

So, #1-5 happens over two or three days. #6 starts a week after that, and #6-7 happens in a day. #8 starts less than a week later, and #8-11 happens over two days, then spans some time while Elektra heals. So, what? Two weeks or so over all, then an epilogue weeks later? No appearances for Elektra elsewhere during this series.

Crossbones appears in #6, published at the same time as his appearances in the concurrent Punisher volume. He appears again in the later portion of #11. Maria Hill appears in the later issues, including the later part of #11. Lady Bullseye gets new powers here, so probably after her appearances in Secret Avengers v3 #4-12. If that’s the case, then we have to ignore the Taskmaster thing; this can’t happen before SECA2 12-16 and after SECA3 4-12, after all. Also, before Magneto #6 for Scalphunter.

In theory, we’re roughly looking at:

SECA2 12-16 -> SECA3 1-4 -> ORIGINAL SIN -> SECA3 5-12 -> Elektra #1-11 -> Magneto #6 -> Punisher
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:34 pm

Just read the last issue of Wolverines. While making your calculations, The majority of Wolverines is probably going to be the last thing for Sabretooth and X-23. All of the cast are left without healing factors at the end and possibly trapped in a corridor between universes.

Things to consider.

It is after the Death of Wolverine, Sabretooth has been inverted for much of it (after Axis), X-23 has been staying aboard the Changeling and not with the All-New crew.

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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:10 pm

Mighty Avengers!

MA2 10 (1-6) picks up where MA2 9 left off. Then, MA2 10 (7-20) happens "months" later. Also, MA2 10 (7-20) actually happens during the crossover.

MA2 11-14 happens shortly afterward, after things have calmed down. Blade has been held captive since MA2 10, so no appearances for him elsewhere during this time.

* * *

X-Men v3 #18-22 is a quick adventure with SWORD in space. Published at the same time as XFOR4 8-13. X-Men v3 #23-26 was published after AXIS.

* * *

Secret Avengers v3 #5-15 all happen in one big chunk, in about two weeks. Nick Fury Jr. is in a coma, Coulson leaves SHIELD, Black Widow's stuck in another dimension, etc. No appearances for any of these characters elsewhere during this stretch. This should happen after all of the Original Sin fallout stuff, because Coulson and Fury are both active in those issues (like All-New Invaders). Also, I'll say after UX3 19-31, because Maria Hill is acting tightly wound over there, and she goes on vacation at the end of SECA3 15. :)
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:46 pm

DPOOL5 29-34 takes place during the ORIGINAL SIN crossover. I haven't had a chance to read past that yet; I'm getting distracted by other things again.

If anyone wants to point out clues in the meantime, feel free! I'll be back soon, promise. :)
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:00 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
So, where's the break? I think we're going to have to invent one somewhere in #11. The only spot is after Sue returns from Latveria and before Wyatt Wingfoot is attacked by "Hawkeye." That's between pages 14 & 15.
I have the break between pages 4 and 11 of issue #8. (Pages 5-10 are a flashback to a point between pages 9 and 10 of issue #6.) The Thing is taken into custody in pages 1-4 of issue #8, and in pages 11-20 he's transferred to Ryker's Island. He could have been incarcerated elsewhere during the gap. During the gap, Reed's assets were seized and he started looking for gainful employment, which could have taken a while before Tony Stark set him up with John Eden.

Here are my notes for pages 11-20:
Given the appearance of Sam Wilson as Cap in FF5 14, this segment must occur a while after FF5 8 (1-4); indeed, given the place of FF 642 in Hulk’s chronology, this segment must occur after Axis, and Sue would be here after A&X:A 5 (1-12). Reed must appear here after NA3 23 (2-20), in which the Baxter Building is quarantined.
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Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:03 pm

Works for me, thanks! :)
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