ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:55 pm

Deadpool vs. Carnage 1-4 ended up getting placed before Original Sin, because Deadpool mentioned he's still with the Thunderbolts (and that Venom's still on the team, so during TB3 20). As mentioned, Deadpool vs. X-Force 1-4 takes place entirely in the past. Hawkeye vs. Deadpool #0-4 line up nicely pre-AXIS. Deadpool references his book's current status (has a kid, married, etc), Hawkeye fits nicely between the seriously-delayed volume and the All-New volume, and Black Cat appears in her post ASM3 6 status quo. That's all fine.

Nova v5 #22 happens on Halloween, and ends with him being called into AXIS by Steve Rogers. Hawkeye vs. Deadpool also happens on Halloween. This can't happen during AXIS, because Deadpool isn't inverted in this mini. So, there has to be a gap of time in Nova #22, and this & Hawk vs Dpool happen shortly before that crossover.

Deadpool #35 references Wolverine's death, but also seems to lead directly into #36, which is an AXIS tie-in. A gap of time is going to have to be put into #35 to accommodate the rest of the universe, and the only spot I'm seeing is between pages 18 & 19. It looks like Hawkeye vs. Deadpool is going to have to go in this gap.

Deadpool's Art of War #1-4, I don't see how it can happen on Earth-616. Deadpool kills Sun Tzu (via time travel?), then decides to write a book. The publisher is only interested if Deadpool can start a war to promote the book. So, Deadpool starts a war in Asgard. He researches Loki, finds out he's a teenager, so gets a past version of Loki (circa Silver Surfer #4). However, Asgard is "classic" Asgard (not on Earth, not floating in space) and Odin's alive (so that means somewhere in comics from 2001 at the latest). Also, no Asgardian is surprised to see adult Loki (does that mean the entire series happens circa SS #4? No, because the current day publisher references the war in #4 as recent). And yet, all the heroes appear in their 2015 costumes (black & red Cyclops with wonky powers, time-displaced X-Men, etc.).

There is no point where there's a classic Asgard and black & red Cyclops with wonky powers is happening at the same time, so this mini can't be canon to 616. Also, it's not in Deadpool's imagination, because (as mentioned before) the publisher references the events of the mini.

Oh well. It was a fun mini.

All-New Ghost Rider 1-10 was also placed before Original Sin.

Legendary Star-Lord #1-4, Rocket Raccoon v2 #1-4 and Silver Surfer v? #4-6 were all published at the same time as GOTG3 17-20. GOTG3 17 ends a previous arc, and GOTG3 18-20 are Original Sin tie-ins.

Silver Surfer v? #4-5 guest stars the Guardians (in Earth orbit, again), and happens over two days. #6 happens some time later, and starts a new story.

Legendary Star-Lord #1-4 happen in pretty quick order, and have to happen after ANX 30.

Rocket Raccoon v2 #1-4 happen in pretty quick order, and some of the other Guardians appear.

Here’s where we’re at:

ORIGINAL SIN
Thor: God of Thunder 25-FB
DD6 6 (7:3 - 10)
FF5 6-8 (1-4)
DD6 6 (11-20), 7
All-New Invaders 7
Avengers v5 25-27
Avengers v5 28 / All-New Invaders 8
All-New Invaders 9-10 & 11-FB
Avengers v5 29-34 / New Avengers v3 16-23
MA2 11-14
UX3 19-24 / ANX 26-31 / UX3 24-31 / ANX 31-36 (view the near future in 36 where lady Thor appears)
GOTG3 18-20
Spider-Man 2099 v2 1
SECA3 5-15
Elektra v? 1-11 (after SECA3 5-15 for Lady Bullseye)
Magneto v? 5-8 (after Elektra v? #1-2 for Scalphunter)
All-New X-Factor 5-13
Bucky Barnes: the Winter Soldier #1-11
Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #1-4
Storm v? 1-3
Silver Surfer v? 4-5
DD6 8-10
Amazing X-Men v2 13
CA7 12-25 (Steve Rogers is aged, Sam Wilson becomes Cap)
Inhuman 7-8
S-H7 7-11, 12 (1-18)
Legendary Star-Lord 1-4
DD6 11-12
NW5 10-12 (Rogers is old, Wilson is Cap, Havok w/Avengers)
UA 23 (Wolverine’s alive) (Rogers is old)
UA 24-FB (Wolverine “leaves” Avengers)
Rocket Raccoon v2 1-4
All-New Invaders 11-13
DPOOL B@ 1
Death of Wolverine #1-4 (Wolverine dies, duh)
Death of Wolverine: Weapon X Program 1-2
Death of Wolverine: Deadpool & Captain America
DPOOL5 35 (1 - 18)
Storm v? 4-8
Nightcrawler v? 7
Death of Wolverine: Life After Logan
Death of Wolverine: Logan Legacy 2-6
Death of Wolverine: Weapon X Program 3-5
Death of Wolverine: Logan Legacy 1, 7
Punisher v? 1-9 / Black Widow v? 8-11 (Wolverine’s dead)
Spider-Man 2099 v2 2-4
XFOR4 5-7 (after Punisher for Domino)
X3 18-22
XFOR4 8-15
DD6 13
W&X2 10-11 (after XFOR4 for Fantomex)
FF5 8 (11-20) - 10, @ 1 & 11 (1-14)
MSM3 12
Silver Surfer v? 6-7
DD6 14-18 & 15.1
NO5 20-22 (1-19:2)
Hawkeye vs. Deadpool 0-4
All-New X-Factor 14 (the “other day” before AXIS)
Magneto v? 9
UA 24-25 / Magneto v? 10 (directly before AXIS)
AXIS
-Daron Jensen

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:40 am

I do believe that the Logan legacy should be listed as:

Logan legacy 2-6
Weapon x program 3-5
Logan legacy 1, 7

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:27 am

Thanks!

Deadly Hands features a still-young Steve Rogers, and has an appearance by Crossbones (both in #1). Deadly Hands #1 was published before Black Widow #9 / Punisher #9 (where Crossbones also appears), so that's nice.

Some time before CA7 12-25, obviously.

It looks like Iron Fist is next!
-Daron Jensen

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:30 pm

Iron Fist: Living Weapon #1-12 is all one story with no breaks for Iron Fist to appear elsewhere. #1-6 lasts maybe two or three days, then he spends a month healing between #6-7 (but that's in Kun Lun (sp?) where time flows differently), then #7-12 lasts maybe a day or two (so less than a week in "real time"), then there's a three month break during #12 where Iron Fist can make all the appearances he wants. Luke Cage appears in this last bit of #12 as a cameo.

I'm leaning toward placing the bulk of this series when publication started (so around All-New Ghost Rider and Moon Knight, pre-Original Sin), and then the last bit of #12 later, maybe even post-Axis (#12 was published five months after AXIS finished).

This and the previous post have been edited into the most recent timelines. At the moment, it looks like we're good up to AXIS. :)

Take a look; if anything appears odd, speak up!
-Daron Jensen

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:41 am

Bucky Barnes: the Winter Soldier #1-11 is all one story and pretty much entirely takes place in space, so it really doesn't matter how long it takes.

#1 starts at least "three weeks" after ORIGINAL SIN ends. Bucky tells Quake that it took him three weeks to go through 2% of Nick Fury's files after he took over Fury's old job, which happened in Original Sin #8. Of course, he appeared in some issues of All-New Invaders "days" after Original Sin #8, so he didn't get started on those files right away.

So, Bucky recruits Quake to work with him, they go off into space and end up fighting the possible future version of Loki from Loki: Agent of Asgard. Also, Bucky gets an alien girlfriend and they run into an alternate reality version of Bucky.
-Daron Jensen

Clive_Reston
Hero
Hero
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Clive_Reston » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:18 pm

You've got Avengers 25-28 happening after Original Sin, presumably because the next-to-last scene of Avengers 28 overlaps with All-New Invaders 7, which is a consequence of Original Sin. But that scene in A5 28 is labeled as an epilogue--Bruce being introduced to the Illuminati--and there's no reason it couldn't happen significantly after the rest of 25-28. It also makes it a lot clearer if Thor has his original Mjolnir for the big fight in A5 27. (Then Original Sin happens; then, sometime after that, Odinson starts using the "unworthy" Mjolnir that Thorr left behind. It actually makes more sense to me for him to be using Thorr's Mjolnir in CA7 25 etc., because it makes the emotional payoff of his final scene in NA3 32 that much greater...)

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:41 am

It's not just the Illuminati thing; it's mainly the world thinking that the Hulk is locked up.

An alternate reality Hulk is locked up in A5 25-28, but the world thinks it's "our" Hulk. However, our Hulk is running around in public during ORIGINAL SIN.

Of course, Hulk pops up in public in CA7 24-25 when the world thinks he's still locked away, but CA7 24-25 has other problems. Thor's hammer (as you mentioned), this Hulk thing, Mockingbird showing up when everyone thinks she's still missing, and maybe another thing or two I'm forgetting about at the moment. Thor's hammer has already been explained (the alternate reality hammer), Mockingbird probably let everyone know she was fine off-panel somewhere (who knows, because it was never mentioned again after Secret Avengers v2), and the Hulk being locked up thing was never mentioned again (either). But, those are CA7 24-25 concerns.

Anyway, yeah, A5 25-28 needs to be after ORIGINAL SIN because of the Hulk, but not necessarily because of the Illuminati. Both Hulk and Thor have some continuity problems in this area, but the current placements are the least damaging to both, I think.

Thanks!
-Daron Jensen

Siabod
Henchman
Henchman
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:00 am

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Siabod » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:33 am

Just a typo I think

The list states "NO5 20-21 (1-19:2)". I think it should read "NO5 20-22 (1-19:2)" Beacuse in Axis list it states "NOVA v5 #22 (19:3-20)".

No where are the pages between NO5 21 (1-19:2) and NO5 #22 (19:3-20) accounted for. Too be a coincednce I think. :)

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:38 am

You're right, thanks!
-Daron Jensen

Aragorn45
Minion
Minion
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Aragorn45 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:31 pm

I have read Uncanny Avengers, and I would place it differently than you do. UA 1-4 should be before Avengers Vol. 5 begins, issues 5-6 should be before Infinity, but issues 7-22 should be after Original Sin. Wonder Man is absorbed by Rogue in that story, but Wonder Man was alive and active during Infinity in Avengers Assemble #20. Most of the Uncanny Avengers series should take place in time gap between Avengers 34 and 35.

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:44 pm

Remember, Wolverine lost his healing factor over in his own book, but still has it in UA 7-22 (he was burned alive for ten years (or something) as torture, and only survived because of his healing factor). As of Original Sin, Wolverine has absolutely lost his healing factor. So at the very least, UA 7-22 has to happen before Original Sin.

UA 7-22 is discussed more over here.

Thanks!
-Daron Jensen

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:50 am

Here's some food for your thoughts:

As of All-New X-Men #31-36, X-23 and the All-New X-Men are in the Ultimate Universe. And they don't get back until after AXIS as #37 depicts Superior Iron Man and the female Thor. And this arc crosses over with Uncanny, which shows Wolverine alive and well, meaning the All-New X-Men team must be in the Ultimate Universe for the entirety of Death of Wolverine and AXIS.

So then, how is X-23 present on Earth-616 in The Logan Legacy? Here's a clue: she can't be. So how can we get around this? Is there a way to get around this? Like move the Logan Legacy after AXIS (which also allows us to ignore how Sabretooth manages to escape captivity for AXIS and get recaptured again). But, Charles Soule said Logan Legacy is pre-AXIS... And then again, it features a seemingly un-inverted Sabretooth. But This is something someone on the CMRO forums pointed out to me when discussing this era of chronology for my calendar project. This needs to be sorted, one way or another.

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: ORIGINAL SIN to AXIS

Post by wolverine7230 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:01 am

Also, I'm just following my train of thought a bit here:
Is there any reason for this
Punisher v? 1-9 / Black Widow v? 8-11 (Wolverine’s dead)
and therefore this
XFOR4 5-7 (after Punisher for Domino)
X3 18-22
XFOR4 8-15

to have to take place before AXIS?

As I'm working on my calendar for AXIS, I've been looking at the area of time directly before in foresight, and is there any reason this is pre-AXIS?

Thanks,
-David

Post Reply