AXIS to SECRET WARS

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:34 am

This is the home stretch, folks!

Once again, I haven’t read most of these yet. As far as I’m aware, some of these books pick up from AXIS (like Superior Iron Man), some take place closer to SECRET WARS (like Avengers), and for the most part, the rest of the line “catches up to” SECRET WARS / Avengers (whether it’s “eight months later” or not, I dunno. It’s eight months later publication / real-world-wise, but in-universe? Maybe? But eight months later after what?), ending with cover-labeled “Last Days” comics when the universe “ends.” Easy, right?

Some of this stuff has been discussed previously, but with no real conclusions that I can see. Instead of running with previously made assumptions (like alternate reality Hulks running round, or whatnot), I’d rather just start fresh and see where things fall.

AXIS
???
SECRET WARS

Stuff that needs to get filled in:

All-New Captain America #1-6
All-New Captain America: Fear Him #1-4
All-New Captain America Special #1
All-New Ghost Rider #11-12
All-New Hawkeye #1-5
All-New Invaders #14-15
All-New X-Factor #18-20
All-New X-Men #37-41
All-New X-Men Annual #1
Amazing Spider-Man v3 #7-18, 16.1-20.1
Amazing Spider-Man Annual v? #1
Amazing Spider-Man Special v? #1
Amazing X-Men v2 #15-19
Angela: Asgard’s Assassin #1-6
Ant-Man #1-5
Ant-Man Annual #1
Ant-Man: Last Days #1
Avengers v5 #34.1, 34.2, 35-44
Avengers: Ultron Forever #1
Avengers World #17-21
Black Vortex Alpha & Omega
Black Widow v? #12-20
Bucky Barnes: Winter Soldier #1-11
Captain America & the Mighty Avengers #4-9
Captain Marvel v9 #9-15
Cyclops v? #5-12
Deadpool v5 #40-45
Deadpool vs. Thanos #1-?
Deathlok v? #1-10
Fantastic Four #642-645
Fantastic Four v5 #11 (15-20), 12-14
FCBD 2015: Secret Wars #0
Groot #1-?
Guardians 3000 #1-8
Guardians of the Galaxy v3 #21-27
Guardians of the Galaxy Annual v? #1
Guardians Team-Up #1-10
Howard the Duck v? #1-5
Hulk v? #5-16
Inhuman #13-14
Inhuman Annual v? #1
Inhuman Special #1
Iron Fist: Living Weapon #12 (7-22)
Legendary Star-Lord #5-12
Loki: Agent of Asgard #10-17
Magneto v? #13-21
Moon Knight v? #7-17
Ms. Marvel v3 #12-19
New Avengers v3 #24-33
New Avengers: Ultron Forever #1
Nightcrawler v? #8-12
Nova v5 #26-31
Nova Annual v? #1
Punisher v? #10-20
Rocket Raccoon v2 #5-11
Scarlet Spiders #1-3
Secret Wars #1
She-Hulk v? #12 (19-20)
S.H.I.E.L.D. v3 #1-? (there are also some 50th Anniversary one-shots; after SW?)
Silk #1-7
Silver Surfer v? #6-15
Spider-Gwen #1-5
Spider-Man 2099 v2 #5-12
Spider-Man & the X-Men #1-6
Spider-Verse #1-2
Spider-Verse Team-Up #1-3
Spider-Woman v? #1-10
Storm v? #9-11
Superior Iron Man #4-9
Thor v? #1-8
Thor Annual v? #1
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #1-8
Uncanny Avengers v2 #1-5
Uncanny Avengers: Ultron Forever #1
Uncanny Inhumans #0
Uncanny X-Men v3 #32-35
Uncanny X-Men Annual v? #1
Wolverines #1-20
X-Men v3 #23-26
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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:38 am

I can't start until tonight, but I would be happy to do time runs out, although it would probably be easier if you put:

AVENGERS 35-44/NEW AVENGERS 24-33 because it crosses over a lot, although several titles cross over with this time period, so, I think that time runs out/ last days is worthy of its own chronology. But I'll go with whatever you think...

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Clive_Reston » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:41 am

A couple of small notes:

The ANT-MAN ANNUAL (at least its framing sequence) happens after the AVENGERS: RAGE OF ULTRON OGN, which is post-Secret Wars.

ULTIMATE END appears to happen during the "Last Days" period (pre-Secret Wars), but on closer examination happens during the Secret Wars period.

The "Last Days" material all happens very, very quickly--within a span of a few hours--and its end coincides with the end of SECRET WARS #1, after which there is an extended gap. (Well, LOKI #17 technically happens after SW #1.)

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:54 am

Oh yeah, the OGNs. I need to get my hands on those.

Rage of Ultron came out a month before Secret Wars #1 did. Does the OGN have an editorial note that says it happens after Secret Wars?
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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:56 am

Well it's not directly stated that it happens after Secret Wars, but it is heavily implied. Read this: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04/07/ ... cret-wars/

Also, about Last Days, some of it takes place in the days before, for example we see Spider-Woman and Black Widow die in Secret Wars #1, so their tie-ins obviously happen before.

There are some annoying points chronologically however, as in Punisher, it is implied that the opening scene is Frank coming out of the bar after his appearance in Secret Wars #1, and then there's a '7 Hour' trip to Afghanistan. Impossible, as the incursion is now down to one hour. In Ms Marvel, it is implied that they spend hours searching for a warehouse, which is obviously impossible.

Last Days is very confusing, but with Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #9 as a base, we could create a chronology, if you wanted, I could do that, to be honest, I've already started...

As for Ultimate End, I didn't see anything to suggest it was pre-Battleworld: There were heroes from both worlds living peacefully, 2 SHIELDs in the same city, 2 Avengers Towers etc.

As for Secret Wars itself, it's gonna be a LONG road to mapping that 30 something year period (it must be that long as there's flashbacks going back that long in Siege). The only thing I'll say now is that Siege fits roughly into the time gap between Secret Wars #5 and 6, with the last issue overlapping with the last few pages of Secret Wars #6. Is it 616 Thanos in 'Infinity Gauntlet'? Because if it is, it has to occur before Siege #4. But anyway, Secret Wars is for another thread or whatever.

As I Said, I'd be happy to take on Last Days / Time Runs Out, it'll give me something to do.

Hope This Helps!

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Somebody » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:08 pm

Battleworld has been in existence, as of Secret Wars #2-onward, for eight years. Dr Strange is clear about that when he meets the 'lifeboat' heroes. He's also clear that they've (Strange & Doom) been messing about with everyone's memories in order to make it seem like Battleworld is all there ever has been to them (also, that some stuff is recreated rather than saved/salvaged).

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:24 am

But there are flashbacks in `Siege` that go back 33 years, just after the formation of battleworld...

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:45 pm

Flipping ahead a little bit.

I don't see Hank Pym in Secret Wars #1, but I do see him as Yellowjacket in the Avengers issues leading up to Secret Wars (he's helping decide who survives, or something). I haven't actually read the issues yet, but I think that's the gist of it. These Avengers issues run right into Secret Wars, right?

So in theory, if Hank's still around directly before Secret Wars, then Rage of Ultron (which I also haven't read yet, but I understand he's unavailable to appear afterward) has to happen after Secret Wars. Right?
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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Clive_Reston » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:22 pm

Right. Hank is also very familiar with female Thor and Sam-as-Captain-America as his teammates in "Rage of Ultron"; there's really no time at all in Hickman's story for him to get to know them, and Nu-Thor is not yet an Avenger as such pre-SW. (Reed and Tony send Hank off into the multiverse "almost eight months" before he returns in NA3 #29. After he gets back, everything goes to hell very quickly, and Hank's still "unstable" as of SW #1.) Avengers/New Avengers does indeed lead straight into Secret Wars. (SW #0 starts four days before the end of Avengers #44, and ends shortly before the end of Avengers #44--although Hyperion appears in its final image, which he shouldn't.) SW #1 rewinds the clock a little: its first scene picks up from the next-to-last scene of New Avengers #33 (which happens right before the final scene, which in turn happens very shortly before #29...), then we go to shortly before the final incursion begins, and then it moves forward from the end of SW #0 to the end of the final incursion (a matter of hours).

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Michael » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:14 pm

One note, guys- Ant Man Annual 1 takes place immediately after Rage of Ultron.

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:54 pm

Clive_Reston says there's a framing sequence in the Ant-Man Annual. Do the flashbacks also happen after Secret Wars? Or is that up in the air?
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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Michael » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:39 am

The flashback was the "last time I (Scott Lang) saw him (Hank)". So we'll have to see if Scott and Hank interact during Secret Wars.
Last edited by Michael on Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:17 am

True. But then, would they even remember interacting during Secret Wars (which would depend on how it ends)? Or how would we even know for sure that if we do see them together, if either version is the "real" version?

Also, apparently, eight month passed after the end of Secret Wars and before the current stuff that's coming out. I suppose the Annual flashbacks and Rage of Ultron could all happen in that gap. Eight months is a long time for NOTHING to happen...
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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:29 am

A couple of observations about the Black Vortex crossover.

Participating chapters:
Black Vortex Alpha & Omega, GOTG3 24-25, Legendary Star-Lord #9-11, ANX 38-39, Guardians Team-Up #3, Nova v5 #28, Cyclops v? #12 & CM9 14.

So, given the placements we already have up to AXIS, ANX 37, CM9 9-13, Cyclops v? #5-11, GOTG3 21-23 & the Annual, Guardians Team-Up #1-2, Legendary Star-Lord #5-8 and Nova v5 #25-27 all happen after AXIS and before the Black Vortex crossover.

Hawkeye vs. Deadpool #0-4 happens on Halloween, and before AXIS. AXIS spans weeks.

According to the Deadpool AXIS tie-in, Thanksgiving happens during AXIS.

CM9 9-13 happen on December 24-25.

CM9 14 is part of the Black Vortex crossover.

So, that puts say, three weeks between AXIS and CM9 9-13, and then Black Vortex happens at some point after that. Neat! But what about everything else listed up there?

ANX 37 happens in a day, and is free-standing (Frost trains the time-displaced Jean).

CM9 13 ends the plot, and doesn’t lead into the crossover. CM9 15 is Captain Marvel returning to Earth from space; her time with the GotG is over by this point. Aged Steve Rogers appears, as does Jim Rhodes and Spider-Woman in her new suit. Happens in a day.

Cyclops v? #5-11 happens in space, and leads into the Black Vortex crossover.

GOTG3 21-23 happens off in space (they go to the symbiote planet); Star-Lord is elected president of the galaxy (or something) in what seems to be a quickly-held election. I haven’t seen this referenced anywhere else yet (but then, I also haven’t read everything yet), so this should probably happen last before the Black Vortex crossover. So, the one-off adventure seen in the Annual should be before this.

Guardians Team-Up #1-2 happens pretty quickly, and is free-standing. Spider-Woman is still in her classic suit (so before S-W v? #5), Sam Wilson is Cap, and Thor is a lady. Angela and Captain Marvel are both listed as part of the team in the recap pages, but I’m not seeing them in the comics. Should be before GOTG3 21-23, in theory. Since Lady Thor appears, this has to happen after she becomes active (also, she’s with the Avengers; I’m not sure when that happens).

Legendary Star-Lord #5 has Star-Lord looking in to Mr. Knife. Kitty Pryde appears, and they set a time for their first “real date” in two days.

Legendary Star-Lord #6 opens with the date (via hologram), so it’s two days later. Happens in a day, Kitty and Tony Stark appear (we don’t see the Iron Man armor, so that’s not a clue if this is after AXIS, but he is acting like a jerk, so…). Star-Lord learns that Mr. Knife is actually J’Son, his dad.

Legendary Star-Lord #7 picks up from #6, and is likely the next day, ad happens in a day, but it’s in space so who knows?

Legendary Star-Lord #8 happens shortly-ish after #7, maybe a few days later? Happens in a day, and kind of leads into the Black Vortex crossover. Not RIGHT into it, but it sets things up. Kitty appears, and decides to stay with Star-Lord in space for a while. Also, no mention that Star-Lord is president of the galaxy, or whatever it is over in GOTG3 23 (this & GOTG3 23 were published the same month). I suppose more time could pass between this and the crossover while Kitty went back to Earth and got some of her stuff, or something, I guess.

Nova v5 #25 (1-27) happens shortly after AXIS ends, then “a few weeks” pass, then (28-30 leads into the next issue. Captain Marvel, classic suit Spider-Woman (so before S-W v? #5) and robot arm Thor appear in (1-27). Captain Marvel must appear here between CM9 8-9, and is visiting Earth for some reason. I haven’t read the current Thor issues yet.

Nova v5 #26-27 (1-18) happen on the same day as Nova v5 #25 (28-30). #27 (19-20) happen on the following Monday, which is a holiday. We’re most likely in January by this point (AXIS ended in late November/early December, #25 starts shortly after that ends, a “few weeks” after that would put us in the winter break, so since school is in session in #26-27, we’re in January). So, this Monday is Martin Luther King Day. Huzzah! Beast, Superior Iron Man and the Doc Green Hulk appear in #27 (19-20), and is continued in the Annual.

The Nova Annual continues from #27, Doc Green is operating out of the abandoned Baxter Building, and Nova finally gets his helmet fixed (it was damaged during AXIS), and leads directly into the Black Vortex crossover. #28 is a tie-in issue.

So, thanks to Nova, we know the Black Vortex crossover happens in the third week of January. Yay!

So, how does all of this fit together?

AXIS (Thanksgiving)
Nova v5 #25 (1-27) (shortly after AXIS, lady Thor & robot arm Thor appear)
GOTG @2 1
Guardians Team-Up #1-2 (lady Thor appears) (classic suit Spider-Woman)
CM9 9-13 (Christmas)
ANX 37
Legendary Star-Lord #5-8
GOTG3 21-23 (Star-Lord elected president)
Cyclops v? #5-11
Nova v5 #25 (28-30), #26-27, Annual
Black Vortex Alpha & Omega, GOTG3 24-25, Legendary Star-Lord #9-11, ANX 38-39, Guardians Team-Up #3, NO5 28, Cyclops v? #12, CM9 14 (3rd week of January)
CM9 15 (Captain Marvel done with GotG) (new suit Spider-Woman)

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Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:37 pm

Have we assumed a date for the incursion?

Say we assume that AXIS is in November, right, we need to set a date for Original Sin to truly get a picture of where Secret Wars is 8 months from.

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