AXIS to SECRET WARS

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:40 am

Inhuman #13-14 & the Annual all happen together. Gorgon is paralyzed and Karnak returns from the dead. Starts an unspecified amount of time after #12, so that's fine. Also, an editor's note says this happens after Ms. Marvel v3 #15. I haven't read MSM3 15 yet, but I know #12 happens around Valentine's day. So, Inhuman #13 is after Valentine's day.

ASM Special, Inhuman Special and All-New Captain America Special are one story. Gorgon appears, and isn't paralyzed. So, before Inhuman #13. I don't know how this lines up with ASM and All-New Cap yet.

Uncanny Inhumans #0 happens shortly before Secret Wars #1 (Black Bolt gets his incursion warning from a gem).
-Daron Jensen

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:56 pm

I've got Uncanny Inhumans #0 right before the opening scenes of Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #9 as in that scene we see the Illuminati/Avengers calling all of the other heroes and telling them that the incursion is coming, which we can assume would take place right after the Early Warning Systems are kicking off. I would argue that Uncanny Inhumans #0 is the real start of Secret Wars; beyond that point, chronology will likely be difficult to map. There are so many scenes of 'the final moments' it's unbelievable...

User avatar
Somebody
Director
Director
Posts: 3033
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Somebody » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:51 pm

This is before you consider how many characters die within Time Runs Out/Last Days before the big kersplody of Earths - including but not limited to (real) Cap, (real) Thor, Iron Man, Nightmask, Hyperion, Magneto, etc - who are just fine post-Secret Wars [Not to mention the deaths of MU Phoenix-Cyclops from the liferaft and MU Dr/Sheriff Strange *during* Secret Wars]. Hell, Cap and Iron Man *kill each other*!

I think Secret Wars will have to wrap up before Time Runs Out gets chronologised.

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:44 am

Yeah, it does all seem terribly confusing with death everywhere, but as I understand it, after Secret Wars, the entire universe is going to get re-created with everyone alive. I mean, even Karnak's alive!

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:49 am

Eh, Time Runs Out is fine for now, and at the moment we're ignoring Secret Wars anyway (aside from #1, that is). If we ever get some kind of explanation/clarification about the end of Time Runs Out (which won't happen until Secret Wars is done) we can always revisit it.

Having said that, I hear there's some confusion about the Punisher. I understand he's doing one thing at the end of the world in Secret Wars #1, and another thing at the end of the world in his own book. I haven't read either one yet, so I couldn't say exactly what the problems are.

I'm also not worried about revived characters. Remember when everyone was worried that Harry Osborn was back during Brand New Day? That was eventually explained. And Karnak's already back; it happened in Inhuman #13-14 (way before the end of the world).

* * *

The Ultron Forever "mini" features Black Widow and Vision from the current day, some characters from the past, and some characters from the future. The current day BW & Vision don't offer many clues and can be dropped in anywhere alongside concurrently published comics. The past characters are very specific about when they came from (but there's no point in going into that here; save it for another topic).

Lady Thor also appears from the near future. She says she's already a member of the Avengers and wants to warn Vision about the "new Queng Dynasty." If we ever run into that in the comics I guess we could place her there; otherwise she's just a possible future version of the character.
-Daron Jensen

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:53 am

When I read the Last Days Punisher tie-ins, I got the impression that Punisher #19 flows out of Frank's appearance in Secret Wars #1, as it seems he is walking out of the bar after shooting all the villains. The only issue is that there's a '7 Hours Later' segment which really makes no sense, unless the writer assumed that the incursions were still 8 hours long.

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:02 pm

Ah, so not that bad then. :)

Thanks!
-Daron Jensen

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:39 pm

On the subject of Last Days, here is a much-simplified, tentative chronology:

Avengers #44 (1-16)
Last Days: Ant-Man #1 (1-21)

Uncanny Inhumans #0 (1-6)
Avengers #44 (17-26)
Black Widow #19
Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #9 (1-3)
Uncanny Inhumans #0 (7-22)
Black Widow #20

Secret Wars #0 (8-10), 1 / Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #9 (4-20) / Last Days: Ant-Man #1 (22) / Magneto #18-21 / Loki: Agent of Asgard #14-16 / Ms Marvel #16-19 / Punisher #19-20 / Silk #7 / Spider-Woman #10

Secret Wars #2-9 / SECRET WARS EVENT / Loki: Agent of Asgard #17 / Silver Surfer #13-16

OK, my logic is:
The first segment of Avengers #44 would logically take place soon before the rest of the issue, so I’ve placed this earliest in this condensed timeline of Last Days. Then the majority of Last Days: Ant-Man takes place the day before the incursion, with little reference to other events.

As for the day of the incursion itself, the first part of Uncanny Inhumans shows us the Early Warning Systems going off, and we can assume that Black Bolt would know just as soon as everybody else. The next part of Avengers #44 shows the Avengers/Illuminati planning what they’re going to do. Black Widow #19 is next, as logically the first person you’d tell about the plan is the person who would be in charge of the future of mankind. From here we skip to the opening pages of Cap and the Mighty Avengers #9 (272 mins before incursion) where we see Luke Cage getting told about the plan. Next I have the remainder of Uncanny Inhumans #0, which is presumably at least a few hours after the previous segment, as Black Bolt has to fly from Rio to New York (I think). Then I put Black Widow #20 as here the Life Raft is flying, which I think flows nicely into the incursion.

As for the incursion itself, as you said, it is extremely complicated to be looking at it now, so I suggest that we leave the in-depth chronology to a later date, I’ve already got a basic chronology in mind. If we base the chronology around Cap and the Mighty Avengers #9, we have a one hour timeframe to build the rest around.

Loki: Agent of Asgard #17, Silver Surfer #13-14 (and presumably the unreleased #15-16) and the rest of the Secret Wars event takes place in the midst of nothing. We know these all take place concurrently as in Loki #17, he says something along the lines of ‘…the Silver Surfer is somewhere around here, and I think Doom has his own thing going on….’

So that’s my basic breakdown of Last Days. I’ll be working on Time Runs Out itself over the next week or so, as well as probably a deeper analysis of the Last Days tie-ins.

Hope this helps!

wolverine

Clive_Reston
Hero
Hero
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Clive_Reston » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:08 pm

The Qeng Dynasty's definitely a thing. Radioactive Man mentions it in the ANADA FCBD special, and in Avengers #0, the Vision says "Twelve days ago I was making a final pass through Avengers Tower. Tony Stark had suggested I retrieve any personal effects before its sale to Qeng Enterprises."

I am trying to imagine circumstances under which Qeng doesn't turn out to be some form of Kang.

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:31 pm

wolverine7230 wrote:So that’s my basic breakdown of Last Days. I’ll be working on Time Runs Out itself over the next week or so, as well as probably a deeper analysis of the Last Days tie-ins.
Ah, so Last Days and Time Runs Out are two different things, then?
Clive_Reston wrote:The Qeng Dynasty's definitely a thing.
Thanks!

The Fantastic Four Annual was referenced as recent in the Loki AXIS tie-in issues, so that has to happen before AXIS. FF5 11 continues from the Annual, but we had to invent a break in FF5 11 so the FF could appear in the AXIS crossover.

FF5 11 (15-20), 12-14 & FF 642-645 are all one string of events. Some time passes in FF 645, but not a lot (enough time for the charges against the FF to be quickly dropped, etc). There are also some backup shorts in FF 645; the first one takes place immediately after the end of the first story, the second and third likely happen during the break in the first story (both involve clean up from the bulk of the first story), and the fourth story happens some time later (the FF go on vacation).

Also, Doc Green more or less starts using the Baxter Building here (or rather, shortly after this), so this is before Hulk v? #5.

Also, this all happens before All-New Invaders #14-15 (Jim Hammond deals with the aftermath of the FF kids being abducted), which in turn happens before Inhuman #13.

So:

FF5 11 (15-20), 12-14 & FF 642-645 (1-31), FF 645-FB, FF 645/2, FF 645/3, FF 645 (32-35) (shortly after AXIS)
All-New Invaders 14-15
FF 645/4
MSM3 12-15 (Valentine's Day)
Inhuman #13

I'm still not sure where the ASM / Inhuman / All-New Cap Specials go, aside from "some time before Inhuman #13." We'll need to figure out where the Specials fall for Spider-Man and Cap first, and then see how those line up with everything else.
-Daron Jensen

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:01 am

Well, they're kind of the same, but not. To me, Time Runs Out takes place in the weeks before the incursion. Whereas Last Days literally takes place entirely on the day of the incursion (with the exception of Ant-Man). There is a little overlap regarding Avengers #44, but I would generally regard them as separate.

wolverine7230
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:20 am

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by wolverine7230 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:41 am

So, I went ahead and created a Time Runs Out timeline, going right up until the morning of the day of the incursion. The only last days tie-in this includes is sections of Captain America and the Mighty Avengers, which I had to use to create a timeframe of which to build this around.

Here it is:

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 1 (23 Days Until Incursion)
Avengers #35 / New Avengers #25 (1-6)

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 2 (22 Days Until Incursion)
New Avengers #25 (7-15)

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 3 (21 Days Until Incursion)
New Avengers #24, 25 (16-20)
Avengers #37 (1-20)

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 4 (20 Days Until Incursion)

Avengers #36

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 5 (19 Days Until Incursion)
Avengers #37 (21-24)
New Avengers #26
Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #8 (13-14:2)

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 6 (18 Days Until Incursion)
Avengers #38 - FB (13-14)

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 7 (17 Days Until Incursion)

Avengers #38 - FB (9-10)

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 8 (16 Days Until Incursion)

Avengers #38 - FB (1-5)

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 9 (15 Days Until Incursion)
Avengers #38
New Avengers #27

TIME RUNS OUT DAY 10 (14 Days Until Incursion)

Avengers #39-41, 43 - FB (1-4) / New Avengers #28-30 / Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #8 (14:3-20)

From this point onwards, placement becomes much more sporadic, as the majority of Time Runs Out takes place in the 10 days listed above.

New Avengers #31-33 Take Place in the space between universes, and are therefore unplaceable, however they must take place around this time period.

INCURSION MINUS 4 DAYS
Avengers #42 - FB (1-2)

INCURSION MINUS 3 DAYS
Avengers #42 - FB (3-4)

INCURSION MINUS 2 DAYS
Avengers #42 - FB (5-6)

INCURSION MINUS 1 DAY

Avengers #42 - FB (7-9)

INCURSION MINUS 0 DAYS
Avengers #42-44

OK, a quick day-by-day breakdown:

DAY ONE: Amadeus Cho is captured.

DAY TWO: Amadeus Cho is interrogated.

DAY THREE: T'Challa and Shuri break into Wakanda's necropolis and fall into a trap.

(These three days happen in this order according to New Avengers #25)

DAY FOUR: The Multiversal Avengers assemble and begin their journey.

DAY FIVE: Sue Storm meets with Reed, who she is secretly working for. Spider-Woman and Black Widow talk with Stark. The Mighty Avengers discuss which side they're on.

DAY SIX - EIGHT: Shown through flashbacks from Avengers #38.

DAY NINE: Sunspot and the New Avengers discuss the Multiversal Avengers. The Multiversal Avengers encounter Dr Strange.

DAY TEN: Battle of Cadiz, Spain.

(From Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #8, we know that this takes place '14 Days' before the incursion. Due to a FB from Avengers #43 going back 'two weeks' takes place on this day, we can assume that Avengers #42-44 all take place on the day of the incursion)

So there we have it.

Hope this helps!

wolverine

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:40 pm

Thanks!

Thor v? #1-8 & the Annual are pretty straightforward, but there's a bit of an oddity when trying to figure out how much time passes.

Thor v? #6 says that Jane's condition has been getting worse over "recent weeks;" #8 reveals she's been getting worse because her time as Thor is killing her mortal form. So, she's been Thor for weeks, right? And yet, Thor v? #7 has Jane thinking to herself that she's only been Thor for "five days." I think we're going to have to assume she was being facetious in #7 and assume at least "weeks" because...

Jane has to become Thor shortly after AXIS; she appears in Nova v5 #25 shortly after that crossover. And then Spider-Woman appears in her new suit in Thor v? #8, which she doesn't get until S-W v? #5; that happens quite a bit after AXIS. Also, Captain Marvell appears on Earth, so likely after CM9 15, where she stops hanging ut in space with the GotG. Those "weeks" are likely to be "months," as it turns out.

Also, Thor Odinson seems to be on speaking terms with Angela by #7-8. Did that happen in Angela's series?

Also, the Annual (published between #5-6) has to go somewhere. Thor is hanging out in Asgard in the Annual, something she's forbidden to do after #8. The only break is between #4-5, so that's where it goes.

So, Thor v? #1-4 happens VERY shortly after AXIS and before Nova v5 #25 (which itself is shortly after AXIS). Then the Annual happens at some point after that, then #5-8 happen at some point after S-W v? #5 & CM9 15.

* * *

All-New X-Factor #18-20 happen in short order. Sunfire mentions Red Skull has been defeated (and people aren’t inverted anymore) so this is after AXIS, even though the Cypher/Danger subplot makes it seem like it’s a day or so since the last issue (which was during AXIS). So, shortly after AXIS, we’ll say.

Also, Spider-Man 2099 appears in ANXF 20, and references the Spider-Verse crossover. So, this is also after Spider-Verse. So, not quite so shortly after AXIS, I guess.

* * *

Speaking of Spider-Verse…

ASM3 7-8 happen in a day, then the last panel of ASM3 8 happens a few days or maybe even a week or so later. Ms. Marvel appears (in the main story, not that last panel).

ASM3 9-15 (and pretty much all of the tie-ins) happen off in the multiverse, so it really doesn’t matter how “long” it takes (ASM3 15 says “days” for what it’s worth). Spider-Man says he hasn’t seen Silk in “days” in ASM3 9, but that doesn’t mean it’s been days since ASM3 8 (it could be weeks, for example).

The Annual was published the same month as ASM3 11 and features standalone stories. I’m leaning toward placing it before ASM3 9 instead of after ASM3 15 if only to keep it closer to publication order. No real placement clues.

The Special was published the same month as ASM3 16, and most likely occurs after Spider-Verse and before ASM3 16.

ASM3 16 starts a new story, but I’m not really looking at that yet. It starts some undetermined amount of time after Spider-Verse, though.

Also, Spider-Verse sets up Silk #1, but I’m not that caught up yet.

* * *

She-Hulk v? #12 (19-20) involves New York City suing the Inhumans after AXIS. So shortly after the crossover, more or less.

* * *

Iron Fist: Living Weapon #12 (7-22) happens “three months” after #1-11 & 12 (1-6). All of that is currently placed before ORIGINAL SIN, so in theory we’ll have to figure out roughly how much time passes between ORIGINAL Sin and AXIS (two months, maybe? That’s a guess; I’m not seeing any dates or holidays mentioned around the time of ORIGINAL SIN). For some reason, I’m inclined to place this near the Christmas seen in CM9 9-13.

* * *

All-New Ghost Rider #11-12 take place “ten months” after #1-10. Currently, #1-10 are placed around the same time as Iron Fist #1-11 & 12 (1-6). In theory, that means #11-12 take place seven months after Iron Fist #12 (7-22)… so in July? This could probably be fudged a bit, but ANGR 11-12 are likely very shortly before the end of the world as we know it.

* * *

Cap & the Mighty Avengers #4 happens very shortly after AXIS (people are still dealing with being recently de-inverted). Happens in a day or two.

#5 features Spider-Man, who mentions he’s already teaching at the Jean Grey School. So, at least after Spider-Man & the X-Men #1 (need to read those) (SM&X 1 was published the same month as ASM3 11). Also, published the same month as ASM3 15, so likely after the Spider-Verse crossover. She-Hulk also appears, published the same month as S-H v? 12. The Luke Cage subplot infers some time has passed since last issue, but the Power Man & White Tiger subplot implies not much time has passed. Hmn.

#6 picks up from #5, and #7 pics up from #6. #7 ends in a cliffhanger where Steve Rogers is trying to get ahold of Cap, which leads into #8 (which says the world has 178 days left, or six months). If needed, we can always split the last page of Mighty #7 off, even though the caption says “meanwhile.” Only Steve Rogers appears in the last page (well, a phone operator does too, but she only appears in the Mighty book). This last page (and the start of #8) has to happen at a point when Steve is preparing to attack the Illuminati, but hasn’t actually started yet.

* * *

Avengers v5 #34.1 happens in a day, features Hyperion, and doesn't reference anything else. Could happen anywhere between A5 34 & A5 34.2.

Avengers v5 #34.2 happens in January, and spans two weeks. Spider-Woman appears in her classic costume, so that gives us a better idea of when S-W v? 5 happens.
-Daron Jensen

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6284
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:49 pm

Spider-Woman v? #1-4 are Spider-Verse crossovers, and at the end of #4 Spider-Woman quits the Avengers. #4 (1-10) ends the Spider-Verse stuff, and #4 (11-20) happens “three days later;” aged Steve Rogers appears, as does Captain Marvel (on Earth), Beast and Vision (in his post-AXIS look).

I don’t think that “three days” can hold up. Spider-Woman appears in her classic suit in other comics along with the Avengers in this area (like A5 34.2). We’ll see how everything lines up, I guess.

#5 starts “five weeks” after the end of #4, and by this point Spider-Woman has a new costume. #5-8 is one story that lasts a few days.

#9-10 is a road trip story that ends with Black Widow getting Spider-Woman to help with the end of the world (and gives her her old costume). Starts an undefined amount of time after #8.

* * *

Uncanny Avengers v2 #1-5 starts “weeks” after AXIS, and spans about a week and a half. Most likely after ANXF 18-20 because of Quicksilver.

* * *

Superior Iron Man #1 takes place during the AXIS crossover, and #2 overlaps with AXIS 6. #2 (8-20) takes place very shortly after AXIS ends, like the next day (and the day after that). #3 is the day after #2’s end, and #4 starts the day after #3, and spans a few days. Daredevil mentions he’s still a lawyer, so we need that gap in DD6 18 after all.

#5 picks up not long after #4, maybe a week or two later.

#6 seems to be shortly after #5, but there needs to be enough time for Stark to arrange a hostile takeover of a major media outlet, and for Pepper to beat him to it. So, what, a week later?

#7-9 picks up from #6 and are continuous, and don’t involve any guest stars or have references to other comics.

* * *

All-New Captain America #1-6 is one story, with no real references to other comics.

All-New Captain America Special #1 was published the month after ANCA 6, so it likely occurs after that.

All-New Captain America: Fear Him #1-4 was a digital comic first, then reprinted as a mini. The digital version started before ANCA did, but the comic version was published the same month as ANCA 4. Cap and Nomad are partners, and Nomad realizes that teamwork is important. In ANCA 1-6, Nomad’s already doing the teamwork thing, so this mini should happen before ANCA 1-6.

* * *

The only part of Guardians 3000 #1-8 that takes place on Earth in the current day is when the world ends. So technically during Secret Wars #1?
-Daron Jensen

Clive_Reston
Hero
Hero
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Re: AXIS to SECRET WARS

Post by Clive_Reston » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:45 pm

S.H.I.E.L.D. (2014) has to be pre-Secret Wars, at least for its first few issues.

S.H.I.E.L.D. #1 has a scene involving Iron Man (in an armor that's kind of but not exactly his Superior armor), Hyperion, Captain America (Sam Wilson), Blue Marvel, the Hulk (who has no speaking lines) and Nova. "The new Thor" is referred to.

S.H.I.E.L.D. #2 happens in one day; S.H.I.E.L.D. is still fighting A.I.M., so presumably it's before Sunspot's buyout.

S.H.I.E.L.D. #3 happens in one day; Spider-Man is around (there's no reference to any other stories involving him), and Dr. Strange is "off-world."

S.H.I.E.L.D. #4 happens in one day and involves the Invisible Woman.

S.H.I.E.L.D. #5 happens in two days, "a few weeks" after #3; Dr. Strange is present again. (It ends on a cliffhanger; haven't read #6 yet, though.)

Post Reply