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WCA2 46 vs. ASPOT 23/2

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:25 am
by JephYork
Right now, the MCP Lists WCA2 #46 (the introduction of the Great Lakes Avengers) as happening right before ASPOT #23/2 (where the newly rebuilt Vision appears on TV.)

However, WCA2 #46's closing scene references ASPOT #23/2 as having already happened. Scarlet Witch asks if one of the AWC's staff has seen Vision lately. He replies that he hasn't seen Vision "since before he went on the television." A footnote references ASPOT #23/2.

This would seem to indicate that ASPOT #23/s takes place before WCA2 #46.

On the other hand: in WCA2 #46, USAgent sees Tigra run by (chasing mice!) and remarks that this is the first time she's shown her face since he arrived. And USAgent and Tigra are shown watching the TV program together in ASPOT #23/2 -- USAgent even talks directly to Tigra. This would indicate that WCA2 #46 takes place before ASPOT #23/2!

What do?

We could assume that USAgent was exaggerating in WCA2 #46, that this wasn't literally the first time Tigra has shown her face since he arrived. (I don't own AWC #44-45, the issues where USAgent arrives, so I can't check if he met Tigra in those issues -- which would definitely make his comment an exaggeration or mistake. Does anyone know?)

Or we could create a gap in WCA2 #46, and place ASPOT #23/s in it. This way USAgent's remark about seeing Tigra can stand, but the closing scene of the issue can still occur after Vision's TV appearance. I'd suggest that we place the gap just before the closing scene, between pp.21-22.

WCA2 #46 pp.1-21 - USAgent sees Tigra for the first time since his arrival
ASPOT #23/s - Vision appears on TV, Tigra & USAgent watch together.
WCA2 #46 p.22 - AWC staff member mentions Vision's TV appearance.

This latter option would only affect the Scarlet Witch's chronology.



Re: WCA2 46 vs. ASPOT 23/2

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:50 am
by robfj
I can confirm that USAgent didn't see Tigra in WCA2 44-45. He arrived on the last page of #44, and Tigra stayed hiding in her quarters in #45. So splitting off the last page of #46 sounds like a good idea.

I think it's good for another reason too. #46 ends with a typical last page lead-in to the next issue's story. As such maybe it should be attached to AWC 47 where Wanda reacts in a panic to the letter she's just received in #46.

This still only affects Scarlet Witch because she's the only notable figure on WCA2 46 p22.

WCA2 46 (1 - 21)
ASPOT 23/2
M/CP 38/2
M/CP 45/2
A 305
A 306
A 307-BTS
A 308
ASPOT 22/2
FF 333
SH:C 1
WCA2 46 (22)
AWC 47

However it does make the statement that Vision appeared on TV only 2 days ago a bit dubious.

Re: WCA2 46 vs. ASPOT 23/2

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:44 pm
by JephYork
Thanks for confirming that USAgent didn't see Tigra in WCA2 #44-45. He could still be exaggerating in WCA #46, though -- according to Mockingbird, nearly three weeks have elapsed between #45 and #46, and that's a long time for Tigra to be hiding...

Wanda doesn't seem to be "reacting in a panic to the letter she's just received" in #47. She's reacting angrily because none of the Avengers will help her "fix" the Vision -- and then in frustration she turns to the authors of the letter she received. I don't see anything to indicate that the letter *just* arrived, or that the letter is what caused her distress.

I don't think this suggested change is all that necessary.


Re: WCA2 46 vs. ASPOT 23/2

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:33 pm
by Michael
Fnord at the supermegamonkey site pointed out that US Agent has been brainwashed into thinking his parents are alive and is hallucinating conversations with them at this point, so it's not like his mental state is 100%. One could write off Agent's comment as being unreliable due to his mental issues.

Re: WCA2 46 vs. ASPOT 23/2

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:32 am
by JephYork
I see him talking to photos of his parents in #45. That's relatively normal. It doesn't necessarily imply "hallucinating that they're alive and talking back to him," unless some later writer added that as a retcon.

Either way, we've still got two options:

- move WCA2 #46 p.22 to just after ASPOT #23/2 (affects only Scarlet Witch's chronology), or:
- swap the placement of WCA2 #46 and ASPOT #23/2 (affects Scarlet Witch, Tigra, USAgent and Vision's chronologies, and contradicts USAgent's claim that WCA2 #46 is the first time he sees Tigra.)

Sounds like the first option is least damaging...?


Re: WCA2 46 vs. ASPOT 23/2

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:14 am
by Michael
In the Battlestar story in Captain America 372-378, we find out that John has been brainwashed into thinking his parents were alive. He even tells Lemar "I even called my ma on her birthday. I spoke to her". With that in mind, I don't see how it's possible to interpret that scene in WCA2 45 as anything but the brainwashing causing John to hallucinate. So if the brainwashing caused John to hallucinate conversations with his parents, it's not out of the realm of possibility that it caused him to forget an encounter with Tigra. (The counterargument is that there's no evidence that the brainwashing interfered with his ability to form new memories but there's nothing to explicitly rule it out either.)

Re: WCA2 46 vs. ASPOT 23/2

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:02 pm
by JephYork
When was he brainwashed?

EDIT: actually, either way, I guess it doesn't really matter. Like, if we had NO CHOICE but to swap AWC2 #46 and ASPOT #23/2, and we were looking for a reason to invalidate the Agent's statement about having not seen Tigra -- then sure, we could point to his brainwashing and pretend that "forgetting seeing Tigra before" might be some outgrowth of that mental instability.

But we do have another option. So we might as well use it -- otherwise we're deliberately creating continuity problems, then creating excuses to work around them.