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Thanos: The Infinity Finale

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:45 am
by PunyBanner
Did anybody else read this graphic novel? I'm very confused as to when this takes place exactly. It starts three months after Infinity Relativity (Thanos being dead the whole time) but it has elements from pre-Secret Wars and post-Secret Wars leaving no room for Thanos to actually appear in Secret Wars. Unless I'm missing something.

Re: Thanos: The Infinity Finale

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:34 am
by robfj
Half way through Finale Warlock recreates the universe and more importantly goes back in time to the beginning of Relativity and changes things. So Relativity, Entity and half of Finale are an alternate timeline. This sidesteps the question of how Thanos' 3 month death fits into his chronology.

But there are still problems fitting what's left into chronology. Starlin obviously tried to connect to current Marvel history but made a mess of it.

Entity #2 and Finale both say Living Tribunal has been killed by the Beyonders. He was alive in Revelation, so it happened in between. Unfortunately when New Avengers #30 showed the deed the lesser cosmic beings got killed 1st. But in Entity and Finale they're still around.

Also the fact that Warlock still needs to become the new LT in the recreated universe means that the original LT died before the beginning of Relativity.

The idea that Adam can become the new (and greater) LT because he contains his reality's LT contradicts the established idea that there's only 1 LT in the multiverse. (When the Beyonders kill him in NAv#30 he fragments and a *body* is left in each universe.)

In Finale Adam/LT says that the old LT wasn't strong enough to stop the Beyonders but now the "story will play out differently". It sounds to me as though Starlin is claiming that this is why the multiverse wasn't destroyed in the new reality created after Secret Wars.

That could make sense. After Molecule Man and Reed Richards recreate the universe in Secret Wars #9 Black Panther goes back to New Avengers #1 and there is no Incursion. So Adam/LT could have stopped the Beyonders before that point. Unfortunately the AVXtoINF thread has NAv#1 before Revelation in which the old LT is still alive. And in Uncanny Inhumans Black Bolt still remembers the Incursions and giving son Ahura to time-travelling Kang to save him from the end of the multiverse. (But then what actually *did* happen during the Hickman era of Avengers in the new reality is still a mystery.)

Also, what exactly *does* the alternate timeline of Relativity and Entity correspond to? The 'Adam/LT saves the multiverse for the Beyonders' theory should mean that that timeline is the Hickman version and the new timeline is the post-SW version. The scan of the resulting universe including the ANAD Avengers supports the last bit.

But this is supposedly the same time as the start of Relativity, and the replay Pip scene confirms that. So Relativity, Entity and half of Finale (even though an alternate timeline) correspond to a stretch of time where the ANAD Avengers already exist. But ANADA includes Miles Morales who only came to Earth-616 after SW. (He appears in SW#9 8 months after BP's time-travelling reappearance in NAv#1. Strictly speaking that doesn't make it the same time as SW's 8 months after NAv#23 but I'm sure that's what they meant.) So by that reckoning Relativity/Entity/Finale is after SW.

But in the Hickman timeline there *is* no after SW. (Strictly speaking in that timeline there's no SW either.)

Also this position in time contradicts Adam/LT stopping the Beyonders. (Except we could always throw in time travel. The super Warlock did it in Entity at least.) And what's the male Thor doing with Mjolnir in Finale? (Admittedly that's in the alternate timeline and 3 months ahead and most other heroes including Jane-Thor are presumably dead. So he could have regained the hammer. Whatever reality that alternate timeline was in.)

This allocation of the 2 timelines in Finale to be the pre-SW and post-Sw realities would mean that it is Warlock that destroys 1 and creates the other. But it was supposedly the Beyonders, Secret Wars and Molecule Man that did that.

The upshot is that I can't find a totally convincing explanation of what the heck is going on.

Over to anybody else.

Re: Thanos: The Infinity Finale

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:10 am
by Michael
Breevort claimed that the scene with the Black Panther doesn't mean that the incursions were erased: ... engers-run
And that's backed up by scenes in other comics- in Captain America Maria Hill justified her involvement with the Cosmic Cube by claiming it was necessary to prevent events like the Incursions from happening and in Ant-Man Scott remembered having sex with Janice Lincoln when they thought the world was going to end.