Vote Loki #1 opening

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Vote Loki #1 opening

Post by Somebody »

So, where the hell do the Avengers get placed here? Iron Man (classic armour), Thor (classic suit), Cap (classic suit), Wasp (black leotard, yellow leggings), Black Widow (leather catsuit, red hair) and what looks distressingly like Hulk (panel 1)/Banner (panel 2). Oh, and Loki's BTS since the issue later states that he's leading the black hats in the fight.

(I've included the second page mostly for timeline context, since "several years ago" clearly understates it...)
VoteLoki1-pg1.jpg
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Re: Vote Loki #1 opening

Post by Russ Chappell »

The presence of Hulk doesn't bother me, as there's no reference to Avengers in the first panel, and this could just be a loose federation of heroes. Hell, there could be dozens of unseen heroes off-panel. Banner's presence in the second panel, though, onstage with "the Avengers", is a little more troublesome. It's obviously an attempt to meld the MCU into the comics.

As for costumes, I tend to take a more lenient view. If used correctly by the creative team, they can provide vital clues for story placement, but if it's not possible to line up the costumes--say, a yellow-suited Daredevil teams up with a green mini-skirted Marvel Girl--I'll just squint, and use other clues to place the story. Not going to toss it out.

I'm not sure that I'm horrified at the thought of Banner appearing on stage with the Avengers, perhaps as a guest of honor, but if the feeling here is that the scene is somehow unplaceable, how about this:

I haven't read the story, but is it possible that this is a flashback, seen from the perspective of the little girl Nisa? As an adult, she's thinking back to the public proclamation when she was a child, and is misremembering? So perhaps Banner wasn't really there?

Personally, I prefer the former, but again, I haven't read the story, and there may be other reasons why this set of characters CAN'T be on stage together.
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Re: Vote Loki #1 opening

Post by Somebody »

Well, crudely, given Black Widow's costume and the "early as possible" timeframe implied by Nina's growth and the TV-watching guy's aging, the most likely time is between ASM 86 (dated Jul 1970, where she takes on her black leather'n'red hair look for the first time) and DD 86 (dated Apr 1972, when she & DD move from NYC to San Francisco). This has the obvious downside that she's not an Avengers member and won't be for some time, but...

Thing about the Hulk is that this is smack-bang in the middle of his "running from General Ross" period, yes? I mean, I'd need to do some research, but... I was willing to write off the big green fist in panel 1, it was Banner in panel 2 that got me.
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Re: Vote Loki #1 opening

Post by zilch »

Artistic error. That's not Banner. He's not named.
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Re: Vote Loki #1 opening

Post by metaldragon »

Is it possible those are actually Hank Pym & Janet vanDyne in civilian clothes with the rest of the Avengers? It might be a stretch but that could place it earlier...
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Vote Loki #1 flashback

Post by Leoparis »

[I reply to this post from 2016 since it's still open. If you'd rather have my post in a new thread, do so.]
Russ Chappell wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:35 pm Banner's presence in the second panel, though, onstage with "the Avengers", is a little more troublesome. It's obviously an attempt to meld the MCU into the comics.

I haven't read the story, but is it possible that this is a flashback, seen from the perspective of the little girl Nisa? As an adult, she's thinking back to the public proclamation when she was a child, and is misremembering? So perhaps Banner wasn't really there?
zilch wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:26 pm Artistic error. That's not Banner. He's not named.
Agreed. The writer is influenced by the MCU. I'm going to ignore the Hulk/Banner situation. Banner is a fugitive in the years Natasha sports black.

The flashback was placed in 1981 between A 208 and 210, a time when Black Widow was not an Avenger, but her presence onstage implies she should be an official member since this is the period of increased governmental scrutiny that started in Avengers 181.
Somebody wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:29 pm Well, crudely, given Black Widow's costume and the "early as possible" timeframe implied by Nina's growth and the TV-watching guy's aging, the most likely time is between ASM 86 (dated Jul 1970, where she takes on her black leather'n'red hair look for the first time) and DD 86 (dated Apr 1972, when she & DD move from NYC to San Francisco). This has the obvious downside that she's not an Avengers member and won't be for some time, but...
Somebody is on the right track here. While most people remember her long 1990s tenure, the first time Black Widow was made an Avenger was in A 111 (May 1973) as noted in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #1, Aug 1985, page 49.

A break was made in A 112 between 4:2 and 4:3 to accommodate IHEARTM/:AI, where Wasp is present in a yellow & black costume (so we've got all needed characters for this Vote Loki 1 flashback!).

Therefore VLOKI 1-FB can come here. It can even occur while Wanda and Vision have their date, thus explaining their absence.
A 112 (1 - 4:2) > IHEARTM/:AI-FB = VOTE LOKI 1-FB > IHEARTM/:AI > A 112 (4:3 - 20)

Why is Loki marked VLOKI 1-FB-BTS ? Is he considered to be the cause of Hulk's rampage? (in a MCU reenactment of Avengers 1?) Note that Loki does not confirm Nisa's accusation. According to Avengers chronology, there is some further damage to NYC buildings in the later Dormammu-Loki plot (A 115-118, specifically DEF 10 & A 118). Maybe this is what Nisa is referring to.

Suggested corrections:
BLACK WIDOW III/NATALIA ALIANOVNA ROMANOVA/"NATASHA ROMANOFF"
A 112 (1 - 4:2)
*VLOKI 1-FB
IHEARTM/:AI
A 112 (4:3 - 20)

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVE ROGERS
DEF 15-FB
*A 112 (1 - 4:2)
*VLOKI 1-FB
*A 112 (4:3 - 20)
CA 160

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK/"RICHARD FRANCO"
A 111 (20)
*A 112 (1 - 4:2)
*VLOKI 1-FB
*A 112 (4:3 - 20)
M/TU 9

LOKI/LOKI LAUFEYSON
T 207 (15 - 21)
*VLOKI 1-FB-BTS move here? delete?
A 115-FB
...
T@ 9
*VLOKI 1-FB-BTS move from here
T 313

THOR/THOR ODINSON/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON"
DEF 15-FB
*A 112 (1 - 4:2)
*VLOKI 1-FB
*A 112 (4:3 - 20)
M/TU 9

WASP/JANET VAN DYNE PYM
M/FEA 10
IHEARTM/:AI
*VLOKI 1-FB
A 139 (10:2)-FB

A minor problem is A 112 currently placed between Hulk 162 and 163 (in the combined timeline) and if so the Hulk would be in Canada moving toward the North Pole. So can Hulk 163-166 (featuring his return to NYC) occur by A 112? I think so.

HULK/ROBERT BRUCE BANNER
*IH2 166 (1 - 2)
*VOTE LOKI 1-FB
*IH2 166 (3 - 19)
I would have liked to have the Avengers fight the Hulk (by mistake) during Zzzax's rampage in NYC but there's no spot where Hulk and Zzzax are separated.


Alternate solution:
Somebody wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:29 pm Thing about the Hulk is that this is smack-bang in the middle of his "running from General Ross" period, yes? I mean, I'd need to do some research, but... I was willing to write off the big green fist in panel 1, it was Banner in panel 2 that got me.
We removed Banner in our listing of panel 2. Why not remove Hulk altogether since he's only identified by his hand? If you wish, that big hand in panel 1 was miscolored green but is actually the hand of the equally huge Lion God in A 112. The fight scene is then between pages 7 and 8, or panels 8:1 and 8:2, or speech balloons 8:1:4 and 8:1:5. And the onstage scene is right after A 112.

Suggested corrections:
BLACK WIDOW III/NATALIA ALIANOVNA ROMANOVA/"NATASHA ROMANOFF"
A 112 (1 - 4:2)
IHEARTM/:AI
A 112 (4:3 - 20)
*VLOKI 1-FB

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVE ROGERS
DEF 15-FB
*A 112 (1 - 8:1:4)
*VLOKI 1 (1:1)-FB
*A 112 (8:1:5 - 20)
*VLOKI 1 (1:2)-FB
CA 160

HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER
DEF 101
*VLOKI 1-FB delete
M/TU 111-FB

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK/"RICHARD FRANCO"
A 111 (20)
*A 112 (1 - 8:1:4)
*VLOKI 1 (1:1)-FB
*A 112 (8:1:5 - 20)
*VLOKI 1 (1:2)-FB
M/TU 9

LION GOD/SEKHMET
*A 112 (1 - 8:1:4)
*VLOKI 1-FB
*A 112 (8:1:5 - 20)
A 114

LOKI/LOKI LAUFEYSON
T 207 (15 - 21)
*VLOKI 1-FB-BTS move here? delete?
A 115-FB
...
T@ 9
*VLOKI 1-FB-BTS move from here
T 313

THOR/THOR ODINSON/"DR. DONALD BLAKE"/"SIGURD JARLSON"/"JAKE OLSON"/"LOREN OLSON"
DEF 15-FB
*A 112 (1 - 8:1:4)
*VLOKI 1 (1:1)-FB
*A 112 (8:1:5 - 20)
*VLOKI 1 (1:2)-FB
M/TU 9

WASP/JANET VAN DYNE PYM
M/FEA 10
*VLOKI 1-FB
IHEARTM/:AI
A 139 (10:2)-FB
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