Spider-Man in SECINV:ASM 3

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robfj
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Spider-Man in SECINV:ASM 3

Post by robfj » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:21 pm

Spider-Man
....
NA 48 (1 - 2)
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22)
NA 48 (3 - 20)
SECINV:ASM 3
ASM@2 1 (1 - 34)
ASM 584
....

Thread 'Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thunderbolts and Secret Invasion' 23 Nov 2008 discussed placement of various issues. But for SECINV:ASM 3 it only worried about the Coffee Bean being repaired after being blown up in ASM 572 (pre-SECINV). This is also true for ASM@2 1 so presumably it is considered OK for these 2 to be about here. And SECINV:ASM 3 has to be before Jackpot dies in ASM@2 1.

Thread 'Skrull Invasion chronology' 29 Dec 2008 contained
SECRET INVASION: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #3 (20-22)
One “Saturday morning,” “several days” after SI:ASM 3 (17-19), during which time Spidey may be fighting Skrulls around the world. This segment occurs before ASM@2 1 (4-12), must occur before SI:FL 5-FB (9:1-9:2), and probably before SI 8 (22-23). Peter returns to the Coffee Bean to see Harry, Vin, Lily, and Carlie, who haven’t seen him since before SI. Peter explains that he was in Queens the whole time, since communications and transportation were disrupted. As Jackpot takes a bath, she gets a phone message from Sara Ehret, who congratulates her on her performance.
SECRET INVASION: FRONT LINE #5 – FB (9:1-9:2)
One day. Peter Parker, Joe Robertson, Matt Murdock, and Ben Urich are among those in attendance at Doris Urich’s funeral. Green grass and trees and blowing leaves in New York.

This is the relevant bit for me. Spidey resumes his Peter Parker role in the 1st section, which should occur before attending the funeral in the 2nd section. That is Spidey's only app in SECINV:FL 5.

This thread has NA 48 (3 - 20) before both Spidey's apps in SECINV:ASM 3 (the other part is p17-19). This would suggest changing Spider-Man's chronology to

NA 48 (1 - 2)
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
NA 48 (3 - 20)
SECINV:ASM 3
SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22)
ASM@2 1 (1 - 34)
ASM 584

Of course this doesn't imply that the whole of SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22) necessarily occurs after NA 48 (3 - 20), merely Spidey's little bit and whatever follows it.

Unfortunately there's another reason for putting the Spidey bit of SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22) *before* NA 48 (3 - 20), which involves UX 505 which Paul Bourcier hadn't included in his thread.

Norman Osborn
....
SECINV 8 (23:4 - 23:6)
SECINV:FL 5 **
DR:YA 2-FB
TB 126 (10 - 22)-VO
SECINV:DR (1 - 2)-BTS **
UX 505-BTS **
SECINV:DR (3 - 7)-BTS **
SECINV 8 (24)
SECINV 8 (25 - 26) ~ SECINV:DR (8) ~ DA 1 (1 - 2) ~ UX@2 2 (11) **
SECINV:DR (9 - 27) **
....

Emma Frost
....
SECINV:DR (1 - 2) **
UX 504
UX 505 **
SECINV:DR (3 - 7) **
SECINV 8 (25 - 26) ~ SECINV:DR (8) ~ DA 1 (1 - 2) ~ UX@2 2 (11) **
SECINV:DR (9 - 27) **
UX@2 2 (12)
UX 506 (1 - 21) **
UX 507-FB
UX 506 (22) **
....

Wolverine
....
NA 48 (1 - 2) **
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
XFOR3 7
XFOR3 8
XFOR3 9
XFOR3 10
XFOR3 11
X:WORLDS 4
X:MD 3/3
UX 506 **
W:CS-FB
W:CS
W:SB-FB
W:SB
W:SB /2-FB
W:SB /2
NA 48 (3 - 20) **
....

These form a chain SECINV:FL 5 -> SECINV:DR~UX 505 -> UX 506 -> NA 48 (3 - 20). Paul had NA 48 (3 - 20) placed earlier because it is written as though there is not much time between NA 48 (1 - 2) and it. But Wolverine's chronology alone denies that.

And Osborn's app in SECINV:FL 5 is a press conference which definitely occurs after the funeral which Peter Parker attends. (Ben Urich remembers various funerals while suffering a writer's block which prevents him from writing about SECINV. Then Osborn's press conference breaks the writer's block.)

So my proposal for Spidey's chronology is not to move SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22) but instead move SECINV:ASM 3.

Spider-Man
....
NA 48 (1 - 2)
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
SECINV:ASM 3 moved from after NA 48 (3 - 20)
SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22)
NA 48 (3 - 20)
ASM@2 1 (1 - 34)
ASM 584
....

robfj
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Re: Spider-Man in SECINV:ASM 3

Post by robfj » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:15 pm

Title:- Spider-Man in SECINV:ASM 3

Spider-Man
....
NA 48 (1 - 2)
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22)
NA 48 (3 - 20)
SECINV:ASM 3
ASM@2 1 (1 - 34)
ASM 584
....

Thread 'Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thunderbolts and Secret Invasion' 23 Nov 2008 discussed placement of various issues. But for SECINV:ASM 3 it only worried about the Coffee Bean being repaired after being blown up in ASM 572 (pre-SECINV). This is also true for ASM@2 1 so presumably it is considered OK for these 2 to be about here. And SECINV:ASM 3 has to be before Jackpot dies in ASM@2 1.

Thread 'Skrull Invasion chronology' 29 Dec 2008 contained
SECRET INVASION: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #3 (20-22)
One “Saturday morning,” “several days” after SI:ASM 3 (17-19), during which time Spidey may be fighting Skrulls around the world. This segment occurs before ASM@2 1 (4-12), must occur before SI:FL 5-FB (9:1-9:2), and probably before SI 8 (22-23). Peter returns to the Coffee Bean to see Harry, Vin, Lily, and Carlie, who haven’t seen him since before SI. Peter explains that he was in Queens the whole time, since communications and transportation were disrupted. As Jackpot takes a bath, she gets a phone message from Sara Ehret, who congratulates her on her performance.
SECRET INVASION: FRONT LINE #5 – FB (9:1-9:2)
One day. Peter Parker, Joe Robertson, Matt Murdock, and Ben Urich are among those in attendance at Doris Urich’s funeral. Green grass and trees and blowing leaves in New York.

This is the relevant bit for me. Spidey resumes his Peter Parker role in the 1st section, which should occur before attending the funeral in the 2nd section. That is Spidey's only app in SECINV:FL 5.

This thread has NA 48 (3 - 20) before both Spidey's apps in SECINV:ASM 3 (the other part is p17-19). This would suggest changing Spider-Man's chronology to

NA 48 (1 - 2)
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
NA 48 (3 - 20)
SECINV:ASM 3
SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22)
ASM@2 1 (1 - 34)
ASM 584

Of course this doesn't imply that the whole of SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22) necessarily occurs after NA 48 (3 - 20), merely Spidey's little bit and whatever follows it.

Unfortunately there's another reason for putting the Spidey bit of SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22) *before* NA 48 (3 - 20), which involves UX 505 which Paul Bourcier hadn't included in his thread.

Norman Osborn
....
SECINV 8 (23:4 - 23:6)
SECINV:FL 5 **
DR:YA 2-FB
TB 126 (10 - 22)-VO
SECINV:DR (1 - 2)-BTS **
UX 505-BTS **
SECINV:DR (3 - 7)-BTS **
SECINV 8 (24)
SECINV 8 (25 - 26) ~ SECINV:DR (8) ~ DA 1 (1 - 2) ~ UX@2 2 (11) **
SECINV:DR (9 - 27) **
....

Emma Frost
....
SECINV:DR (1 - 2) **
UX 504
UX 505 **
SECINV:DR (3 - 7) **
SECINV 8 (25 - 26) ~ SECINV:DR (8) ~ DA 1 (1 - 2) ~ UX@2 2 (11) **
SECINV:DR (9 - 27) **
UX@2 2 (12)
UX 506 (1 - 21) **
UX 507-FB
UX 506 (22) **
....

Wolverine
....
NA 48 (1 - 2) **
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
XFOR3 7
XFOR3 8
XFOR3 9
XFOR3 10
XFOR3 11
X:WORLDS 4
X:MD 3/3
UX 506 **
W:CS-FB
W:CS
W:SB-FB
W:SB
W:SB /2-FB
W:SB /2
NA 48 (3 - 20) **
....

These form a chain SECINV:FL 5 -> SECINV:DR~UX 505 -> UX 506 -> NA 48 (3 - 20). Paul had NA 48 (3 - 20) placed earlier because it is written as though there is not much time between NA 48 (1 - 2) and it. But Wolverine's chronology alone denies that.

And Osborn's app in SECINV:FL 5 is a press conference which definitely occurs after the funeral which Peter Parker attends. (Ben Urich remembers various funerals while suffering a writer's block which prevents him from writing about SECINV. Then Osborn's press conference breaks the writer's block.)

So my proposal for Spidey's chronology is not to move SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22) but instead move SECINV:ASM 3.

Spider-Man
....
NA 48 (1 - 2)
SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB
SECINV:ASM 3 moved from after NA 48 (3 - 20)
SECINV:FL 5 (8 - 22)
NA 48 (3 - 20)
ASM@2 1 (1 - 34)
ASM 584
....

===================================

My solution could be amended further. It doesn't affect the order of SECINV:ASM 3 and SECINV:FL 5.

Paul was right in his Skrull Invasion Chronology - NA 48 (3 - 20) really should occur very soon after the conclusion of the main battle in NA 48 (1 - 2) and SECINV 8 (20 - 21)-FB. Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Ms Marvel come looking for help to find Skrull-Jarvis and kidnapped baby Danielle which they discovered at the end of the battle.

Spider-Man's app in SECINV:ASM 3 is actually in 2 parts:- SECINV:ASM 3 (17-19) where he meets up with Jackpot and finds out what she's been doing during the rest of the mini-series. SECINV:ASM 3 (20-22) several days later where he makes his 1st reappearance as Peter Parker and spins a story to his chums to explain where he's been all this time. But we *don't* get told where he's really been, since SECINV didn't last that long.

If SECINV:ASM 3 was split into these 2 parts in Spidey's chronology and NA 48 (3 - 20) was moved to between them then it would allow the time since NA 48 (1 - 2) to be short, and it could also explain where Spidey was in the days between his 2 parts of SECINV:ASM 3.

I see 2 possible problems with this. A crucial fact is that, although Osborn isn't in this part of NA 48, it would have to occur in his chronology before his app in SECINV:FL 5 which as explained earlier is after Spidey's bit in there.

But there's a 3rd part of NA 48 - in p21-22 desperate Luke Cage goes to see Norman for help finding Danielle. This occurs much later in Osborn's chronology:-

SECINV 8 (23:4 - 23:6)
SECINV:FL 5
DR:YA 2-FB
TB 126 (10 - 22)-VO
SECINV:DR (1 - 2)-BTS
UX 505-BTS
SECINV:DR (3 - 7)-BTS
SECINV 8 (24)
SECINV 8 (25 - 26) ~ SECINV:DR (8) ~ DA 1 (1 - 2) ~ UX@2 2 (11)
SECINV:DR (9 - 27)
ASM 587
ASM 588
DA 1 (5 - 7)-FB
MA 20
DA 1 (8 - 9)-FB
A:I 21-BTS
A:I 23
A:I 24
MSM2 36-FB
DR:NN /2
DA 3-FB
DA 13-FB
DA 1 (10 - 20)-FB
DR:FF 1
DR:FF 3
DR:FF 4
DR:FF 5
DA 1 (21 - 28)-FB
NA 48 ****
NA 49 (1 - 19)

But this change only extends what is already a large gap between p20 and p21 of NA 48. During this period we can assume that Luke and Jessica Jones haven't stopped searching, and the other characters have been individually helping on and off between around whatever other appearances they have. (Eg NO's chronology puts the DR:FF mini-series in between for the FF.)

So I don't see this as a big problem.

The 2nd problem area is Wolverine. He's the only 1 that definitely puts NA 48 (3-20) later, ie after the formation of the Cabal in Secret Invasion: Dark Reign, which Osborn has after SECINV:FL 5.

We'd have to move NA 48 (3 - 20) for Wolvie before UX 506 which is after SECINV:DR. Ie somewhere in:-

XFOR3 7
XFOR3 8
XFOR3 9
XFOR3 10
XFOR3 11
X:WORLDS 4
X:MD 3/3

The short time we want between NA 48 p2 and p3 suggests NA 48 (3-20) goes before all the above.

But I don't really know much about X-continuity, so I don't know what violence this would do the the sense of Logan's timeline. Since no other X-characters appear in NA 48 (3-20) I can't see that it would affect any other actual chronologies.

And a scan of the synopses of issues in uncannyxmen.net doesn't reveal anything to indicate where the events of NA 48 fit. The only relevant reference seems to be 1 of the X-Force issues saying the damage due to Secret Invasion is being cleared up - but that doesn't stop NA 48 (3-20) happening earlier.

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