Non-Marvel characters in the Prime Marvel Universe

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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MarvelBoy2002
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Non-Marvel characters in the Prime Marvel Universe

Post by MarvelBoy2002 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:11 am

Hi everybody! I've heard these stories were referenced in handbooks... Can you tell me, which handbooks refered to them? Hope you'll help me.

Marvel Classics Comics #1, 3, 4, 11, 16, 28, 30, 34, 36
Supernatural Thrillers #2, 4
Marvel Illustrated: The Three Musketeers #1-6
Marvel Illustrated: The Man in the Iron Mask #1-6
Marvel Graphic Novel #11

If you'll find any references to those or other non-Marvel properties in comics or handbooks, please post reply on this page.
Last edited by MarvelBoy2002 on Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:59 am, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by ShadZ » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:13 am

MarvelBoy2002 wrote:Hello. Can you tel me, are those comics really considered canon for Earth-616? In which handbooks they were mentioned?

Marvel Classics Comics #1, 3, 4, 11, 12, 16, 28, 30, 34, 36
Personally, I don't think Marvel Classics Comics #1, 3, 4, 11 & 12 should be considered canon. They are reprints of comics originally produced by a different company.

However, Marvel Classics Comics #16, 28, 30, 34 & 36 were produced by Marvel and I don't see why they wouldn't be canon...
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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by vanhornluke » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:07 pm

MarvelBoy2002 wrote:Hello. Can you tel me, are those comics really considered canon for Earth-616? In which handbooks they were mentioned?

Marvel Classics Comics #1, 3, 4, 11, 12, 16, 28, 30, 34, 36
Marvel Preview #5-6
Supernatural Thrillers #2, 4
Marvel Illustrated: The Three Musketeers #1-6
Marvel Illustrated: The Man in the Iron Mask #1-6
The reasoning for thinking those stories are 616 is as follows. The official Avengers Index says in its entry for Avengers #200 that D'Artagnan's last appearance was Marvel Classics Comics #12. This proves that at least #12 is 616. It also shows that Marvel's adaptations of classic literature are are all at least potentially 616, and absent incompatibility with 616 continuity should probably be considered 616. All of the above stories feature characters who appear or are referenced in other stories which are indisputably 616 and are not, to my knowledge, incompatible with 616 continuity.

I wish similar reasoning could be applied to Marvel's movie adaptations, since that would bring in a handful of other stories for other characters as well (e.g., Tarzan, James Bond), but to my knowledge no such movie adaptations have ever been referenced in a handbook or index.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by Russ Chappell » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:31 pm

vanhornluke wrote:I wish similar reasoning could be applied to Marvel's movie adaptations, since that would bring in a handful of other stories for other characters as well (e.g., Tarzan, James Bond), but to my knowledge no such movie adaptations have ever been referenced in a handbook or index.
And, since both are licensed properties, are unlikely to be referenced there, in the future.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by MarvelBoy2002 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:03 am

MarvelBoy2002 wrote:Hello. Can you tel me, are those comics really considered canon for Earth-616? In which handbooks they were mentioned?

Marvel Classics Comics #1, 3, 4, 11, 12, 16, 28, 30, 34, 36
Marvel Preview #5-6
Supernatural Thrillers #2, 4
Marvel Illustrated: The Three Musketeers #1-6
Marvel Illustrated: The Man in the Iron Mask #1-6
Sherlock Holmes was mentioned in Marvel Atlas #2, so Marvel Preview #5-6 is canon.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by vanhornluke » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:38 am

Russ Chappell wrote:
vanhornluke wrote:I wish similar reasoning could be applied to Marvel's movie adaptations, since that would bring in a handful of other stories for other characters as well (e.g., Tarzan, James Bond), but to my knowledge no such movie adaptations have ever been referenced in a handbook or index.
And, since both are licensed properties, are unlikely to be referenced there, in the future.
Granted. We know that Tarzan's Marvel series (through handbook references and the villain Abdul Alhazred) and James Bond (references through Shang-Chi) are 616, but that doesn't mean that Marvel's adaptations of their movies are also 616. The best we could probably hope for would be a small reference to them in a handbook entry somewhere, but so far that hasn't happened (and probably won't, but you never know).

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by wolframbane » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:05 am

With my own research, I always went by the philosophy that if a non-Marvel character appeared in or was referred to in a story which occurred in the core Marvel Universe, he almost definitely exists in the MU, and any appearance in other stories published by Marvel involving said characters may or may not occur in the MU as well. Of characters with no presence in the MU, perhaps not.

Robin Hood was in Marvel Comics Classics #34, and he and Ivanhoe were in #16. As Robin Hood was probably Fandral, I accept these stories in the MU.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11039

Moby Dick and Captain Ahab in MCC #8 may be Ulysses Bloodstone and Giganto as in Marvel Universe #7.

MCC #2 adapted the Time Machine which is a work of fiction in the MU, as Callisto was inspired by the book to name her group the Morlocks, according to OHOTMU Deluxe #2.

War of the Worlds from MCC #14 was canon on Earth-691, the world of Killraven and Guardians of the Galaxy, as in Amazing Adventures v2 #18.

Sherlock Holmes appeared in Marvel Preview #5-6, and Marvel Atlas # confirmed him in the MU. Giant-Size Master of Kung Fu #3 implies he may be the great uncle of Clive Reston.

Fu Manchu is confirmed in Deady Hands of Kung Fu.

Giant-Size Master of Kung Fu #3 implies James Bond was the father of Clive Reston. He may or my not exist in the MU, although Marvel did adaptations of For Your Eyes Only and Octopussy, and also James Bond Jr.

Doc Savage is confirmed in the MU in Giant Size Spider-Man #3 and Marvel Two-In-One #21.

Tarzan battled Abdul al-Hazred in Pellucidar Tarzan #15, who later clashed with Wolverine in Marvel Comics Presents #152-155. Both versions of Abdul were confirmed as one and the same in Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #1.

Elric is not native to the MU, but did visit in Conan #14-15.

Cthulhu is confirmed to exist in the MU the Marvel Zombies Handbook. The city of R'lyeh and possibly Cthulhu's tomb was in Namor: The First Mutant #1-4.

There are also certain "fiction within fiction" realms where characters who exist within fiction within the MU exist, and are the "inspiration" for the works of fiction in the MU itself. This includes the Land of Fiction in Fantastic Four: True Story and the Ideaverse in Deadpool Killustrated.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by wolframbane » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:28 am

Lone Ranger and Tonto were referred to in Rawhide Kid v3. The Kid referred to "the Ranger" and "the Indian" the followed him around.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by MarvelBoy2002 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:50 am

Marvel Graphic Novel #12 is creator-owned story, but it contains references to Zhered-Na and Atlantis.
Last edited by MarvelBoy2002 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by vanhornluke » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:40 pm

MarvelBoy2002 wrote:Does Void Indigo story from Marvel Graphic Novel #12 set in the Earth-616? It contains rereferences to Zhered-Na and Atlantis.
I would be interested in an answer to this question, too.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by Clive_Reston » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:46 pm

Just to complicate matters further: Fantastic Four: True Story #2 strongly implies that both Robin Hood and "Ivanhoe" are entirely fictional within the Marvel universe.

(Interestingly, Dracula and Frankenstein's monster both show up during that miniseries too, neither looking exactly as they do in their own comics--it's more reasonable to assume that those versions are both "representations of fiction about historical figures."

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by vanhornluke » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:27 am

That's easily explained as there being fictional stories written about the real characters of Robin Hood (Fandral) and Ivanhoe.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by MarvelBoy2002 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:15 am

Marvel Classics Comics #19 (Robinson Crusoe story) was referenced in Incredible Hulk #219.

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:28 pm

Interesting. I just went back and read that issue of IH. It's a strange editor's note, since there is no character from Robinson Crusoe that appears in the story, but rather a guy who falsely believes he's Crusoe. Still, the editor's note seems to suggest that the editor considered that issue of Marvel Classics Comics to take place in 616. :)

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Re: Question about several comic books

Post by MarvelBoy2002 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:12 am

Ghita from Marvel's adaptation of The Destroyer novel series was mentioned on Tomes of Eldrich Knowledge page: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/tome ... wledge.htm

Were Spawn issues featuring Angela ever referenced in handbooks or guidebooks? Are those comics canon?

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