When is a Hulk not a Hulk?

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robfj
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When is a Hulk not a Hulk?

Post by robfj » Thu May 11, 2017 6:09 pm

I believe I've spotted a missordering of Hulk (2008) 13 and Incredible Hulk 600.

Hulk has:-
H2 12
H2 13
PS:PROLOGUE
SKAAR:SOH 11
SKAAR:SOH 12
AOATLAS2 8
AOATLAS2 9
IH2 600-FB
H2 21-FB
FF 569
IH2 601

In H2 13 Norman Osborn sends Ares to check a report that Bruce Banner lost his Hulkiness in IH2 600-FB. So H2 13 should come after that. (And all the comments I've found in the forum on the subject seem to take this for granted.) (PS:PROLOGUE and the SKAAR:SOH issues have Banner being Hulk, as does AOATLAS2. H2 21-FB and later have BB not being Hulk. H2 21-FB isn't directly connected to 600, but has BB powerless. I'd put H2 13 1st after 600 because Osborn probably got to hear about it pretty soon.

Hulk
....
H2 12
PS:PROLOGUE
SKAAR:SOH 11
SKAAR:SOH 12
AOATLAS2 8
AOATLAS2 9
IH2 600-FB
H2 13 (moved from after H2 12)
H2 21-FB
FF 569
IH2 601
....

But now I have to look at any side-effects. Luckily there are very few other chars in H2 13 to worry about.

Rick Jones
....
H2 6
H2 13
IH2 604
....
is no problem at all because his surrounding apps are far enough away to include both positions of H2 13.

That can't be said for the trio of Norman Osborn, Ares and Moonstone. (I'll combine consecutive issues to save space.)

Ares
....
ANSAVSH 2-4
WARM2 2-5
H2 13
CA5 48
A:I 25
WARM2 11-12
DW 75-77
DR:HAWK 1
TIME:2099 4
MSM2 40
DR:LL 2-FB
DR:LL 1-FB
IHRC 127-128
ASM 596-FB
ASM 647/6
ASM 596-597
....

Moonstone
....
ANSAVSH 3-4
MA 21
MSM2 37
H2 13
CA5 48
T 600
A:I 25
WARM2 11
DW 75-77
MSM2 38
DR:HAWK 1,3
TIME:2099 4
MSM2 39-46
DP4 10
DR:LL 1-3
DR:Z 3
IHRC 127-128
ASM 596-FB
ASM 647/6
ASM 596-597
....

Green Goblin
....
ANSAVSH 1-4
MA 21,23
VOMK 10-FB
AOATLAS2 1,3,5
MSM2 33-BTS
MSM2 37
IIM 8-13
DR:EL 1 (7 - 8)
WARM2 1-3,5
H2 13
WARM2 7-10
....
DR:LL 1-FB
DP4 10,12
AACAD 2-FB
DR:LL 2-FB
DR:LL 3-FB
DR:HOOD 2
DR:LL 3
W:MRX
TB 133
DR:MM
DR:Z 1-FB-FB
P8 2 (20 - 22)
P8 5-6
DR:EL 5 (5 - 23)
P8 8
AACAD 4-FB
DR:Z 1-3
ASM 594
MA 24 (1 - 2)
DR:MN 2-3
AACAD 1 (5:2)-FB
IH2 602/2-FB
MA 24 (3 - 24)
DR:SINSM 1,2,4
AACAD 3-FB
IHRC 127-128
ASM 595-597
....

Note that none of these 3 are in IH2 600.

But Spider-Man has:-
....
ASM 594
DR:MN 1-3
IH2 600 (6 - 28)-FB
FF 569
IH2 601
ASM 595-597
....
This has IH2 600 FB after DR:MN, so that H2 13 has to be moved a long way down Osborn's timeline to at least after this item. Comparing Ares and Moonstone with Goblin we see that for Moonstone this means after DR:Z 3, and for Ares after his DR:LL apps.

But note also that IH2 600 FB is before ASM 595-597 which are also the tail ends of the Ares, Moonstone and Goblin ranges I have shown. Moreover it is before IH2 601.

Then returning to the amended Hulk timeline
....
H2 12
PS:PROLOGUE
SKAAR:SOH 11
SKAAR:SOH 12
AOATLAS2 8
AOATLAS2 9
FF 569
IH2 600-FB
H2 13 (moved from after H2 12)
H2 21-FB
IH2 601
....
we see at last that we want H2 13 before IH2 601 and so before ASM 595 on Goblin's list. The simplest way to achieve that for Ares and Moonstone is to put it before IHRC 127-128.

For the 2 sidekicks this gives:-

Ares
....
ANSAVSH 2-4
WARM2 2-5
CA5 48
A:I 25
WARM2 11-12
DW 75-77
DR:HAWK 1
TIME:2099 4
MSM2 40
DR:LL 2-FB
DR:LL 1-FB
H2 13 (moved from before CA5 48)
IHRC 127-128
ASM 596-FB
ASM 647/6
ASM 596-597
....

Moonstone
....
ANSAVSH 3-4
MA 21
MSM2 37
CA5 48
T 600
A:I 25
WARM2 11
DW 75-77
MSM2 38
DR:HAWK 1,3
TIME:2099 4
MSM2 39-46
DP4 10
DR:LL 1-3
DR:Z 3
H2 13 (moved from before CA5 48)
IHRC 127-128
ASM 596-FB
ASM 647/6
ASM 596-597
....

There is no problem with this. Both are still active members of Osborn's Dark Avengers, and Moonstone is still using the name and old costume of Ms Marvel.

For Osborn we have more scope.

Green Goblin
....
WARM2 1-3,5
H2 13 (to be moved somewhere between DR:MN 2-3 and IHRC 127-128)
WARM2 7-10
....
DR:MN 2-3
AACAD 1 (5:2)-FB
IH2 602/2-FB
MA 24 (3 - 24)
DR:SINSM 1,2,4
AACAD 3-FB
IHRC 127-128
ASM 595-597
....

The events in the target range, even IH2 602/2-FB, have nothing to do the issues in Hulk's timeline that have to fit in there. But bearing in mind that there are 4 of those (IH2 600-FB, H2 13, H2 21-FB, IH2 601) then I'd plump for:-
Green Goblin
....
WARM2 1-3,5
WARM2 7-10
....
DR:MN 2-3
AACAD 1 (5:2)-FB
IH2 602/2-FB
H2 13 (moved from between WARM2 5 and 7)
MA 24 (3 - 24)
DR:SINSM 1,2,4
AACAD 3-FB
IHRC 127-128
ASM 595-597
....




But along the way I noticed there's also some confusion about the placement of FF 569 around IH2 600.

Hulk has:-
....
AOATLAS2 9
IH2 600-FB
H2 13 (now that I've moved it)
H2 21-FB
FF 569
IH2 601
....

Spider-Man has:-
....
ASM 594
DR:MN 1-3
IH2 600 (6 - 28)-FB
FF 569
IH2 601
ASM 595-597
....

But She-Hulk has:-
....
PS:PROLOGUE
SH:CC
FF 569
M/DIVAS 1,4
IH2 600-FB
FOHS:SAVSHS 2-FB
....

Note that all these IH2 600 FB's cover the same pages even if they don't say so.
Note also that these characters are only in the last half of FF 569 - Thing's wedding. The 1st half of FF 569 occurs earlier, in particular before ASM 590.

For most of the other wedding attendees the exact placement of FF 569 and IH2 600-FB is irrelevant. Emma Frost and Sub-Mariner place FF 569 between MA 24 (1-2) and MA 24 (3-22). This and Spidey's DR:MN 1-3 locate it closely in the timeline of Norman Osborn, the bellwether for Dark Reign chronology.

Green Goblin:-
....
ASM 594
MA 24 (1 - 2)
DR:MN 1,3
AACAD 1 (5:2)-FB
IH2 602/2-FB
H2 13 (now that I've moved it)
MA 24 (3 - 24)
DR:SINSM 1,2,4
AACAD 3-FB
IHRC 127-128
ASM 595-597
....

Both FF 569 and IH2 600-FB could fit between DR:MN 3 (18:5-22) and MA 24 (3-24). Again the intervening entries in GG's timeline aren't connected to either of these events. So we could have the pair in either order without violating anybody's chronologies except Hulk and Spider-Man or She-Hulk.

There is no way She-Hulk can have FF 569 and IH2 600-FB in a different order than Hulk and Spider-Man. But which should be moved? The clue is in FOHS:SAVSHS 2-FB (which is p1:3-4:2) where Shulk is captured by the Intelligencia as part of the IH2 600 FB, and they will keep her prisoner for a long time. So FF 569 has to stay before IH2 600 FB. And the other 2 FF 569 apps must move to meet it.

For Spidey this makes no odds. For Hulk this means his app as Bruce Banner at the wedding goes before he loses his Hulkiness in IH2 600. But before then he was transforming at will so there's nothing wrong with him attending the wedding as a civilian.

The simplest solution is:-

Hulk
....
AOATLAS2 9
FF 569 (moved from before IH2 601)
IH2 600-FB
H2 13
H2 21-FB
IH2 601
....

Spider-Man
....
ASM 594
DR:MN 1-3
FF 569 (moved from before IH2 601)
IH2 600 (6 - 28)-FB
IH2 601
ASM 595-597
....

(Along the way I also noticed that She-Hulk's apps in M/DIVAS seem to clash with other folks, but I don't have these issues. I could look in Marvel Digital but I'm running out of brain cells.)




To summarise the changes:-

Ares
....
WARM2 5
CA5 48
A:I 25
WARM2 11
WARM2 12
DW 75
DW 76
DW 77
DR:HAWK 1
TIME:2099 4
MSM2 40
DR:LL 2-FB
DR:LL 1-FB
H2 13 (moved from before CA5 48)
IHRC 127
....

Green Goblin
....
WARM2 5
WARM2 7
....
IH2 602/2-FB
H2 13 (moved from before WARM2 7)
MA 24 (3 - 24)
....

Hulk
....
H2 12
PS:PROLOGUE
SKAAR:SOH 11
SKAAR:SOH 12
AOATLAS2 8
AOATLAS2 9
FF 569 (moved from before IH2 601)
IH2 600-FB
H2 13 (moved from after H2 12)
H2 21-FB
FF 569
IH2 601
....

Moonstone
....
MSM2 37
CA5 48
....
DR:Z 3
H2 13 (moved from before CA5 48)
IHRC 127
....

Spider-Man
....
DR:MN 3
FF 569 (moved from before IH2 601)
IH2 600 (6 - 28)-FB
IH2 601
....

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Russ Chappell
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Re: When is a Hulk not a Hulk?

Post by Russ Chappell » Thu May 11, 2017 8:40 pm

robfj wrote: ... I noticed there's also some confusion about the placement of FF 569 around IH2 600.

Hulk has:-
....
AOATLAS2 9
IH2 600-FB
H2 13 (now that I've moved it)
H2 21-FB
FF 569
IH2 601
....

Spider-Man has:-
....
ASM 594
DR:MN 1-3
IH2 600 (6 - 28)-FB
FF 569
IH2 601
ASM 595-597
....

But She-Hulk has:-
....
PS:PROLOGUE
SH:CC
FF 569
M/DIVAS 1,4
IH2 600-FB
FOHS:SAVSHS 2-FB
....

Note that all these IH2 600 FB's cover the same pages even if they don't say so.
Note also that these characters are only in the last half of FF 569 - Thing's wedding. The 1st half of FF 569 occurs earlier, in particular before ASM 590.
My notes show She-Hulk's chronology should be:

PS:PROLOGUE
SH:CC
IH2 600-FB
FOHS:SAVSHS 2-FB
FF 569
M/DIVAS 1
M/DIVAS 4
WWHS /4-FB
WWHS /4
WWHS /5

so I'm editing She-Hulk. See if that helps.

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Col_Fury
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Re: When is a Hulk not a Hulk?

Post by Col_Fury » Thu May 11, 2017 11:26 pm

No, that can't work.

SH:CC
IH2 600-FB (She-Hulk captured)
FOHS:SAVSHS 2-FB (while captured, She-Hulk used to empower Red She-Hulk)
FF 569 (She-Hulk free & clear)
M/DIVAS 1 (She-Hulk free & clear)
M/DIVAS 4 (She-Hulk free & clear)
WWHS /4-FB (She-Hulk still captured)
WWHS /4

FF 569 and M/DIVAS 1-4 have to go before IH2 600-FB because of She-Hulk.
-Daron Jensen

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