Inter-company crossovers

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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vanhornluke
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Inter-company crossovers

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:47 am

Cool! I'm glad to see the Amalgam stories added to the site. :) Just a quick note about some other items I've posted breakdowns for here:

Amazing High Adventure #1
Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker
Strange Combat Tales #1-4
all the Earth-7642 (Earth-Crossover) stories

Are these not going to be added? Still in the works but haven't been gotten to yet?

Edit: I also see that Access's chronology has been messed up. His appearances in DC vs Marvel have been replaced with his appearances in DC/Marvel: All Access, and his appearance in Doctor Strangefate #1 has been placed between #3 and #4 of All Access, rather than DC vs Marvel.

Edit 2: I also see that Spider-Man's appearance in SBOYTU #1 that I pointed out in my Amalgam thread wasn't added to his chronology. I realize that may be hard, but it's still an omission that I hope someone can fill.

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Re: Update

Post by Somebody » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:00 pm

vanhornluke wrote:Cool! I'm glad to see the Amalgam stories added to the site. :) Just a quick note about some other items I've posted breakdowns for here:

Amazing High Adventure #1
Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker
Strange Combat Tales #1-4
all the Earth-7642 (Earth-Crossover) stories

Are these not going to be added? Still in the works but haven't been gotten to yet?
7642 isn't. The policy on which universes to add (in the FAQ) was specifically written to exclude stories like those:
Follow-Up Q. What about intercompany crossovers, like Marvel vs. DC, or Avengers/JLA?

When the Marvel Universe crosses over with another publisher's universe, it must be presented as two separate universes crossing, not existing in the same universe, to qualify for a listing (Avengers/JLA being a good example of this). In such a case, we'll list only the Marvel characters, as we're the MARVEL Chronology Project.

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Re: Update

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:17 pm

Somebody wrote:
vanhornluke wrote:Cool! I'm glad to see the Amalgam stories added to the site. :) Just a quick note about some other items I've posted breakdowns for here:

Amazing High Adventure #1
Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker
Strange Combat Tales #1-4
all the Earth-7642 (Earth-Crossover) stories

Are these not going to be added? Still in the works but haven't been gotten to yet?
7642 isn't. The policy on which universes to add (in the FAQ) was specifically written to exclude stories like those:
Follow-Up Q. What about intercompany crossovers, like Marvel vs. DC, or Avengers/JLA?

When the Marvel Universe crosses over with another publisher's universe, it must be presented as two separate universes crossing, not existing in the same universe, to qualify for a listing (Avengers/JLA being a good example of this). In such a case, we'll list only the Marvel characters, as we're the MARVEL Chronology Project.
That quote isn't relevant. It's addressing which intercompany crossovers are included as 616 stories. It's not saying that there can't be Earth-7642 listings in the alternate universe section. This should be obvious, since the Amalgam comics were just added, and they're intercompany crossovers on a shared Earth (i.e., "existing in the same universe"). If that quote ruled out adding 7642, it would rule out adding Amalgam as well.

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Re: Update

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:33 pm

Does this look right for Access?

ACCESS/AXEL ASHER
*DCV.M/ 1
*DCV.M/ 2
*DCV.M/ 3
**DSFATE (move to here)
*DCV.M/ 4
*DC/M/:AACC 1-FB
DC/M/:AACC 1
DC/M/:AACC 2
DC/M/:AACC 3
**DSFATE (move from here)
DC/M/:AACC 4
*UACC 1
*UACC 2
*UACC 3
*UACC 4
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Re: Update

Post by Somebody » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:42 pm

vanhornluke wrote:That quote isn't relevant. It's addressing which intercompany crossovers are included as 616 stories.
Well, considering that I was one of the guys who wrote it (along with Fury & Kevin W)....
vanhornluke wrote:It's not saying that there can't be Earth-7642 listings in the alternate universe section. This should be obvious, since the Amalgam comics were just added, and they're intercompany crossovers on a shared Earth (i.e., "existing in the same universe"). If that quote ruled out adding 7642, it would rule out adding Amalgam as well.
No, the Amalgam stuff exists as part of DC vs. Marvel. Which was an inter-universe crossover. They exist in the same universe in a similar way to Avengers/JLA #3-4 - a universe which is merged (and unmerged, then recreated) in story. As opposed to a story which just starts with Spider-Man & Batman in the same universe without explanation.

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Re: Update

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:02 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Does this look right for Access?

ACCESS/AXEL ASHER
*DCV.M/ 1
*DCV.M/ 2
*DCV.M/ 3
**DSFATE (move to here)
*DCV.M/ 4
*DC/M/:AACC 1-FB
DC/M/:AACC 1
DC/M/:AACC 2
DC/M/:AACC 3
**DSFATE (move from here)
DC/M/:AACC 4
*UACC 1
*UACC 2
*UACC 3
*UACC 4
Yes. He actually has another appearance during Unlimited Access in an issue of Green Lantern (he shows up looking for Kyle because of events in UACC 1), but I figured you'd probably opt to leave it out, since that one wasn't published by Marvel.

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Re: Update

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:08 pm

Somebody wrote:
vanhornluke wrote:That quote isn't relevant. It's addressing which intercompany crossovers are included as 616 stories.
Well, considering that I was one of the guys who wrote it (along with Fury & Kevin W)....
vanhornluke wrote:It's not saying that there can't be Earth-7642 listings in the alternate universe section. This should be obvious, since the Amalgam comics were just added, and they're intercompany crossovers on a shared Earth (i.e., "existing in the same universe"). If that quote ruled out adding 7642, it would rule out adding Amalgam as well.
No, the Amalgam stuff exists as part of DC vs. Marvel. Which was an inter-universe crossover. They exist in the same universe in a similar way to Avengers/JLA #3-4 - a universe which is merged (and unmerged, then recreated) in story. As opposed to a story which just starts with Spider-Man & Batman in the same universe without explanation.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you'd helped write that quote. If that's really what you meant by it, I have to say that quote is unclear, since it sure seems like it's saying that shared Earth crossovers aren't considered 616, not that non-616 shared Earth stories can't be listed among the alternate universes. I don't see what the problem is with the shared Earth being unexplained, since 7642 is listed as an alternate universe in the handbooks and we actually see brief glimpses of it in an issue of What If and an issue of Avengers Forever. There's no explanation for the existence of the various DC analogues in Not Brand Echh or What The, but that wasn't considered a reason to bar listing those alternate universes.

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Re: Update

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:26 pm

vanhornluke wrote:Yes. He actually has another appearance during Unlimited Access in an issue of Green Lantern (he shows up looking for Kyle because of events in UACC 1), but I figured you'd probably opt to leave it out, since that one wasn't published by Marvel.
What issue of Green Lantern?
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Re: Update

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:09 pm

Green Lantern #87 (Jun 1997)

Access is jointly owned by both Marvel and DC and his DC appearance should be noted in his chronology.

Also if Marvel gives another company permission to use their character (for an upcoming cross-over) that the story meets the qualification for inclusion in the MCP, shouldn't we track the Marvel Characters appearance. (It's been a long time, but I believe Mojo appeared in Youngblood and Mephisto appeared in Witchblade.

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Re: Update

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:19 pm

Thanks!

Looking at it online, it even says on the cover that he appears. Neat!
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Re: Update

Post by Russ Chappell » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:07 am

Jason Doty wrote:if Marvel gives another company permission to use their character (for an upcoming cross-over) that the story meets the qualification for inclusion in the MCP, shouldn't we track the Marvel Characters appearance. (It's been a long time, but I believe Mojo appeared in Youngblood and Mephisto appeared in Witchblade.
If it's an inter-universe crossover, then yes.

(Are you sure it was Mojo? We're already tracking both Domos in YOUNGBLOOD vol 2 #10. Are you sure it was "Witchblade"? We're already tracking Mephisto in both Witchblade/Elektra and Wolverine/Witchblade.)

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Re: Update

Post by vanhornluke » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:30 am

Russ Chappell wrote:Are you sure it was "Witchblade"? We're already tracking Mephisto in both Witchblade/Elektra and Wolverine/Witchblade.)
Yes, Mephisto briefly appears in Witchblade #11 as a lead-in to the "Devil's Reign" event.

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Re: Inter-company crossovers

Post by vanhornluke » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:57 am

Ironically, while I unintentionally started a discussion of some intercompany crossovers, my original question was never actually answered. What about the other stories I posted chronological breakdowns for? Will they be added to the site?

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Re: Inter-company crossovers

Post by Russ Chappell » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:43 am

There are no plans to add text pieces to the Project.

The Handbooks may say that the events in a particular story happened, and that's fine, but we don't plan to add text stories, or any other form of media, to the Project. We'll add comic stories in comic books, graphic novels and comic magazines (such as Dracula Lives, or Monsters Unleashed). If the Handbook says that events shown in a Broadway play, a Paul McCartney song, an ad for jelly doughnuts, or a roll of Hulk toilet tissue actually happened, more power to them, but we're not adding them here.

The other comic books that you mentioned probably will be added eventually, although not to the extent they were analyzed here. The analysis posted here includes chronologies for people whom we only have a first name, and those don't qualify for listings; but where appropriate, we'll add them.

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Re: Inter-company crossovers

Post by vanhornluke » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:08 pm

So I shouldn't bother posting any breakdowns for Martin Goodman's magazines, even though they contain 616 stories?

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