A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

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robfj
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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by robfj » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:06 pm

I think you may have to move Deadpool #32 back a little bit.

DP finds the Resistance base at the Mount and sees Hawkeye and Quicksilver there. Then he returns to Hydra and tells them that the Mount *isn't* the base.

The problem here is Quicksilver who leaves with the Stark AI's group near the end of SE#2 and doesn't return until SE#5.

I don't think DP#32 can be placed with SE#5 because Hydra attack the Mount as soon as Stark & Co return, and they obviously *know* where the base is.

You have DP#32 just after SE#2. You could move it to within SE#2 or before it.

I guess you'll need that separation of DP#33 and #34. #33 fits with #32 but #34 is obviously meant to lead in to #35 which leads directly into SE#8.

Clive_Reston
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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by Clive_Reston » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:52 pm

Excellent points, one and all. Have tweaked the sequence again accordingly. Thank you!

gregorynbaker
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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by gregorynbaker » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:02 pm

Doctor Strange v4 #24?

Clive_Reston
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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by Clive_Reston » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:40 am

Seems to be immediately after #21-23! And thanks.

The flashback in Generations: Captain America happens during the Vanishing Point moment, with all the other Generations specials (from the POV of the younger characters, anyway; the older characters don't experience it & it didn't "really" happen). But a significant amount of time has to pass between the end of Secret Empire and the non-flashback parts of Generations: Cap (which is fine!), because of some Spider-Man contingencies:

* In the backup story of PPTSSM2 #1, S.H.I.E.L.D. and Natasha are still around. (In the Peter Parker preview story in FCBD2017:SE, Peter's wearing the costume with the glowing blue spider, so that happens before Secret Empire too.)

* During Secret Empire, Peter's glowing-blue-spider costume is destroyed, and he goes back to the black-spider one.

* "Weeks" after Secret Empire, we get ASM 789-790: Peter is still crashing on Bobbi's couch; Johnny Storm is incensed that the Parker Industries/Baxter Building has apparently been sold to some "condo-flipping finance bro," and that he can't afford to buy it himself with his $16,000 or so in savings. (Uncanny Avengers #26-28 happen at some point after ASM 790; Johnny Storm comes into an immense amount of money.)

* In PPTSSM2 #1-5, Peter's costume has the black spider, and he has an apartment of his own, so that has to be after the "Fall of Parker" storyline over in ASM. (Despite an editorial note suggesting, probably for the sake of a joke, that it happens before Secret Empire...) S.H.I.E.L.D. still exists in some form (hence the Gray Blade). And Sam Wilson appears in #2 in his Captain America costume, with a shield.

* In Generations: Captain America, S.H.I.E.L.D. "no longer exists," or at least is being shut down, but that's apparently news to Sam. At the end of the issue (after another break of unspecified duration), Sam gives his shield to Steve.

* In Marvel Legacy #1, it's S.H.I.E.L.D.'s "last day," and Sam is wearing the Captain America outfit for the "last time"; he finds ANOTHER shield.

A potential additional complicating factor in this is Avengers #11, in which Sam has "ceded Captainship" to Steve already, is still wearing his Cap costume, and talks about "surrendering the shield" in a way that suggests he's already done it; meanwhile, the Parker Industries/Baxter Building has just had the Avengers' stuff evicted from it faster than they've had a chance to react. (By the next issue, #672, Sam is Falcon.) I don't think we know yet who it's been sold TO, though; perhaps it was tied up in some kind of litigation for a while? Or we can argue that Sam has decided at that point to give the name and the shield to Steve once he locates him, but hasn't done that yet, which would mean we can place Avengers #11 between Secret Empire and "Fall of Parker."

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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by StrayLamb » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:36 pm

Sorry if i'm restating something here that's already been gone over, but there seems to be something wrong with the U.S.Avengers breakdowns. If i may attempt to clarify, without muddying the waters further..

U.S.Avengers #7 (1-5) seems to occur concurrently with Free Comic Book Day 2017 (Secret Empire) 1/1 & U.S.Avengers 6 (19-20)

U.S.Avengers #7 (6-18) occurs immediately afterwards..

U.S.Avengers #7 (19-20) occurs sometime shortly thereafter, Toni and Maverick having been transported to The Schoolhouse, a remote Hydra detention centre, where they are told that their friends have been sighted in Paris..

U.S.Avengers #8 (5-8) seems to occur immediately after Toni is thrown into the cell with Roberto..

The following then occurs later in time, after The Eternity War in Ultimates 2 #7-9 & 100..

U.S.Avengers #8 (9-21) wherein Peregrine, Captain Britain, Outlaw and the others have located Hydra's arsenal in Paris, which may well have taken them some time; in deep space, Sam Guthrie is put up for auction, after a space journey which may well have taken the same amount of time; and in the excercise yard, Toni speaks to Philip Vogt, who mentions the Eternity War, also taking place after the same interval of time, Roberto's bandage having been taken off at some previous time.

Although it appears that the whole of U.S.Avengers #8 occurs in the immediate aftermath of issue 7, there is significant gap between pages 8 and 9, NOT pages 11 and 12.

U.S.Avengers #9 - takes place immediately after issue 8, and is stated to be after the Las Vegas incident.

I would also like to suggest moving Deadpool #32-33 to a spot immediately before Secret Empire #1. The current placement is apparently due to Rick Jones supposedly being dead, due to what appears to be his face X-ed out on the screens at Hydra HQ, but the rest of the story quite clearly seems to take place earlier in the timeline. For instance, Pietro is still at the Mount, and running deliveries for Hawkeye, which he is shown doing during Secret Empire #1. Pietro has already left the Mount with the other volunteers to search for the Cube fragments by the end of Secret Empire #2. Also, Deadpool #32 shows the old history books being destroyed, and mentions the schools are teaching a new history, which is the case right at the beginning of Secret Empire #1. Deadpool reporting the Mount to be clear at this part of the timeline also seems to me to make more sense.

If we take the X-ed out face of Rick Jones to simply mean he has been captured, rather than killed, it becomes easy to place these two issues immediately prior to Secret Empire #1, where i believe they belong.

Also, Secret Warriors #4 scenes are back to front. Scenes 1, 3, 5, 7 take place just before, and as, the Darkforce Dome goes up, early in the action. Scenes 2, 4, 6, 8 take place later in the action.

Nick.

Clive_Reston
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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by Clive_Reston » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:51 pm

Thank you! I've made those corrections.

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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by StrayLamb » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:46 pm

SE: Brave New World #1/1, 2/3, 3/3, 4/3, 5/3 (Invaders)
Namor talks early on about trying to keep Atlantis from getting drawn into the conflict, which suggests that it's before the shard comes into play. But the dialogue on the last few pages suggests that this is in fact after he gave up the shard. Placement ambiguous, for now; further suggestions are welcome.
Hi Clive,

There are some gaps in the narrative between some of the Brave New World (Invaders) issues. At the start of issue #2/3, Bucky reports on the prisoners, telling Namor that the solitude appears to be getting to them. I believe #1/1 should probably go early in the piece, possibly between Champions #10 and Deadpool #32.

Brave New World #2/3 and 3/3 go together, probably somewhere just prior to Guardians of the Galaxy Annual #1.

Allowing for at least 24 hours to pass between the capture of the rebels, and Namora's execution, issues #4/3 and 5/3 could be placed immediately after the end of Captain America #25, and prior to Secret Empire #8. This eliminates the potential of spoiling the Bucky Barnes reveal in Cap 25, and seems to fit well.

On another note, the first 6 pages of Mighty Captain Marvel #8 overlap with Secret Empire #7, so issues #6 and #7 must occur prior to that point. I would suggest keeping the whole of issue #6 where you have placed #6 (1-4), followed immediately by issue #7.

The breakdowns for Mighty Captain Marvel # 8 and Secret Empire # 7 and #8 seem to work as follows:

Mighty Captain Marvel 8 (1-4)
Secret Empire 7 (1-4) ~ Mighty Captain Marvel 8 (5-6)

Mighty Captain Marvel 8 (7-10:2)
Secret Empire 8 (1-6)
Mighty Captain Marvel 8 (10:3-10:6) ~ Secret Empire 8 (7-8:3)
Secret Empire 8 (8:4-15)
Mighty Captain Marvel 8 (11-19) ~ Secret Empire 8 (16-25)
Secret Empire 8 (26-34)
Mighty Captain Marvel 8 (20)

Nick.

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Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Post by StrayLamb » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 am

Clive_Reston wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:40 am
* In PPTSSM2 #1-5, Peter's costume has the black spider, and he has an apartment of his own, so that has to be after the "Fall of Parker" storyline over in ASM. (Despite an editorial note suggesting, probably for the sake of a joke, that it happens before Secret Empire...) S.H.I.E.L.D. still exists in some form (hence the Gray Blade). And Sam Wilson appears in #2 in his Captain America costume, with a shield.
PPTSSM2 #1-5 really does seem to have to go before Secret Empire, despite the costume. SHIELD is definitely active throughout the story, and the backup story in issue #1, involving Black Widow, seems to be a close prelude to the main story. Spidey is referred to as Peter Parker's bodyguard and employee, quite specifically in a phone call from Agent Mintz to Peter in issue #4.

J Jonah Jameson appears to be between his finish at the FACT Channel and his appearance in SE:BNW #3/1. Steve Rogers is still considered to be a hero.

I think the dialogue between Spidey and the Human Torch at the beginning of issue #1 is telling as well. Spidey talks about how his great power has increased in the past year, which i would take to be a reference to Parker Industries, and doesn't sound like a guy who's just lost everything. Also, despite how his suit is drawn and colored, Johnny Storm comments on how Spidey's costume is cooler now, and Spidey asks why Mr Fantastic never loaded up Johnny's costume with cool gadgets, implying that Spidey's high-tech costume is still in use, even though he appears to be wearing the old costume here.

Spidey's comments to Johnny about not having much time these days for the little things, also implies that he's still CEO of Parker Industries, and could shed light on why he's using the old suit in these issues, as a way to get back to the basics of being Spidey.

The "editorial" note stating that the story occurs before Secret Empire is actually a note by the writer.

Easier to assume that Pete was taking the old costume out for a spin, i think, than base the chronology solely on that, when so much more seems to outweigh the argument.

I'll also add that i believe Avengers 11 occurs immediately after ASM #789-790, where we see the PI logo being taken down from the Baxter Building, and is followed almost immediately by Uncanny Avengers #26-28, in which Johnny Storm admits to having made a mistake earlier that morning, which could reference his fight with Spidey at the Baxter Building.

What do you think.?

Nick.

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