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A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:26 pm
by Clive_Reston
Looking over all the Secret Empire issues and tie-ins published to date, I was struck by how clear and tightly organized most of the chronology has been. I realize that it's a bit early (the event's not even over yet!), but here's an initial attempt at a sequence (revised 11/19/2017).

If you have thoughts or corrections, bring 'em on!

Sam Wilson: Captain America #24 (flashback):
Sam talks to Gideon, "weeks ago" (before the end of SW:CA #21).

Secret Warriors #5 (20)
"Before the takeover."

U.S. Avengers #4 (20)
U.S. Avengers #5 (1-18)

Secret Warriors #1, scenes 3, 5, 7
Phil Coulson tells Daisy Johnson to meet him at the Chipped Cup in 72 hours.

Deadpool #31
"Within the last hour," Coulson has found out something's weird with Steve. Steve gets Deadpool to kill Coulson.

Mighty Captain Marvel #5 (1-9):
Chitauri wave is on the way.

Thunderbolts #12

Steve Rogers: Captain America #15

Steve Rogers: Captain America #16
Bomber hits the defense shield.

Steve Rogers: Captain America #17 (FB 11-14):
"Madripoor before the Hydra Nation"--Steve finds Magneto and proposes to leave New Tian alone in exchange for his noninterference. This must take place sometime after Steve:Cap #15, although it arguably could take place sometime shortly after Secret Empire: FCBD.

Secret Empire #0
As of the beginning of the issue, the Chitauri invasion is on the way; the planetary defense shield was taken out by a suicide bomber "hours ago"; "less than an hour ago," former Pleasant Hill prisoners are attacking NYC. (The Defenders are fighting them; they're already a team at this point.). Quasar is injured. Nitro blows up. The shield goes back up. The Unity Squad arrives in NYC. The Darkforce dome appears over Manhattan. Holographic Tony Stark announces that Avengers are needed in Washington, DC.

DURING SECRET EMPIRE #0:

U.S. Avengers #5 (19-20)

U.S. Avengers #6

Mighty Captain Marvel #5 (10-20)--the shield goes down and back up

Secret Warriors #4 (scenes 1, 3, 5: "it's not even dark out yet" but NYC is under attack. Devil Dinosaur and Moon Girl rescue people, and fall into the Hudson River just before the dome goes up.)

Amazing Spider-Man #29 (basically simultaneous with Secret Empire #0, from beginning of attack on NYC to Holographic Tony's announcement)

Secret Warriors #3, scene 1 (the dome has just gone up; Ms. Marvel sees it from Jersey City)

Uncanny Avengers #24-25 (happens very quickly, beginning "eight minutes after darkness fell"; Quicksilver, outside the dome, hears Holo-Tony's announcement)

X-Men Gold #7 and #8 (1-19): the dome goes up on pg. 5 of #7; inside the X-Mansion, there's a psychic message from Doctor Strange. Pg. 20 of #8 says "Days Later: Manhattan has been freed from the Darkforce Dimension." Er... it's going to be at least a high double-digit number of "days," I suspect.

Deadpool #33, flashback #2: Ellie and Preston see the dome, which has just gone up, but "we gotta get to school." What time did it go up, anyway? Preston and Deadpool drive up to the Catskills, which has to take a while. (FYI: flashback #1 is to Steve asking Deadpool to join the Unity Squad, so much earlier.)

AFTER SECRET EMPIRE #0:

U.S. Avengers #7: during the early stages of the Washington, DC attack. Steve arrives there.

U.S. Avengers #8 (4-7): very shortly thereafter, Toni, Red Hulk and Roberto are imprisoned.

Secret Warriors #2, scene 1:
New Attilan, during the takeover. The dome has gone up over Manhattan very recently.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #3/1: Daily Bugle
The darkforce dome seems to have gone up just in the past few hours.

Secret Empire FCBD issue:
Washington, DC, Hydra Invasion Hour Four. (Peter Parker/Spider-Man is there to get his tail kicked, having taken a pogo plane from London.)

Amazing Spider-Man #30:
Begins in the immediate aftermath of FCBD issue; takes Peter from Washington to Shanghai.

Amazing Spider-Man #31

Avengers #9
Steve, in the course of the Washington, DC battle, has somehow banished Jane/Thor to some slow-moving other-dimensional situation, without her hammer. Timing of this issue is very uncertain, as is the flow of time within it.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #3/2: Starbrand
"The second day."

Secret Warriors #1, scene 1
Daisy Johnson at the Chipped Cup, presumably 72 hours after scene 7.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #1/3: Gwenpool
Shortly after the takeover.

Secret Warriors #2, scene 3 & 5
Grid, Inferno and Naja in Philadelphia.

Secret Warriors #3, scenes 3, 5, 7
Ms. Marvel in Jersey City, not too long after the takeover.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #1/2: Giant-Man
Roughly 12 days after the takeover. Scott Lang and Wasp are in Las Vegas, and come get Raz in Denver.

Doctor Strange #21-24:
Inside the Manhattan Darkforce dome, "almost 2 weeks" since it went up.

Avengers #10
Superior Octopus and his Avengers team. Timing is very flexible.

Ultimates2 #7-8:
America tries to enlist Galactus; Rocket is still with Carol's team; things get metaphysical. Timing is unclear, but this must be before both Secret Empire #3 and the later part of U.S. Avengers #8.

Ultimates2 #9:
America has returned to Carol's team, and the Guardians apparently haven't left yet.

Ultimates2 #100:
Captain America/Iron Man fight seen on pp. 4-5 probably has to be symbolic, for reasons discussed below--they do fight in Secret Empire #4 and 6, but this doesn't seem to fit with those.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/2: Bob, Agent of Hydra
Bob and co. bring in an Inhuman. Timing flexible, but it fits here.

Mighty Captain Marvel #6 (1-4):
The Guardians are still around, and America's present (so she must have returned); Carol sends the Guardians out to get intergalactic help.

Sam Wilson: Captain America #22 (FB): Sam comes back from communing with birds in the desert and finds out what's gone down. He starts smuggling people out of the country, with the help of Misty Knight and D-Man. At some point, Scott Lang calls him to get Cassie out of the country. Placed here to give Sam some time to run his operation for a while before we see him next.

Champions #10
Miles, Viv and Amadeus, not yet working with Natasha, are worrying about Ms. Marvel, from whom they haven't heard in weeks (she's been busy with the Secret Warriors). Nova's in outer space, Cyclops is (they think) safe with the X-Men, though he's really part of an insurgency, as we'll learn from X-Men: Blue...

Occupy Avengers #8 (first scene)
"Then": Hydra is being draconian about food distribution. (Could really be anywhere in this period.)

Deadpool #32-33
Hydra has X-ed out one of the resistance--Rick Jones, it appears, but per StrayLamb's suggestion, that could just mean he''s been captured. The Mount is up and running, and Pietro is there.

Secret Empire #1
Hydra Nation is very firmly in place; at least a couple of months after the takeover, it appears. Attack on Las Vegas begins.

Steve Rogers: Captain America #17 FB (3-4)
Obliteration of Las Vegas continues.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/1 (1-6:4)
Rayshaun becomes Patriot.

Secret Empire #2 (1-8)

Champions #11
Patriot's first time out in costume. (He's still not clear on Ironheart's name, although she was one of the ones who rescued him...)

Occupy Avengers #8
The "now" section is best placed here: Clint thinks they're likely to be dead "inside of 48 hours," and Scott Lang is with the team. Leads into...

Occupy Avengers #9:
Hawkeye, Miles, Viv and Amadeus are at the Mount.

Secret Empire #2 (9-23) Natasha leaves the Mount, Tony assembles his team.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/1 (6:5-8)

Secret Empire #2 (24-26)
"24 hours" after Secret Empire #2 (9-23). Natasha has been followed to Colorado by the Champions. Holo Tony and company's quest for cube fragments begins. Scott takes Pietro to see Sam Wilson.

Sam Wilson: Captain America #22 (present-day bit):
Scott and Sam, same as the scene in Secret Empire #2

Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/1 (9)
Rayshaun contacts Miles and Falcon, who are no longer at the Mount.

Steve Rogers: Captain America #17
Naja is in the New Attilan Inhuman Holding Center.

Steve Rogers: Captain America #18 (FB occupying most of the issue)
Hydra forces have been slaughtered in Wakanda "three times" (we see Zola getting forcibly disassembled in a sub-flashback). Namor taunts Steve about the cube fragment.

U.S. Avengers #8 (8-20):
Timing is unclear, but some time passes between pages 7 and 8. Toni Ho encounters Philip Vogt, who refers to events in Ultimates2 #8; per U.S. Avengers #9, the Las Vegas attack has already happened.

U.S. Avengers #9

Secret Empire #3
The Guardians are petitioning the Kree; Monica, at the shield, suggests contacting Galactus "again." Sam agrees to move holo-Tony's party out of the country. Zola went to Wakanda "last week." Zemo destroys the Atlantean temple over the fake fragment.

Sam Wilson: Captain America #23:
Apparently midway through SE #3, Sam takes holo-Tony's team into the Mole Man's domain. Next, they're going to want to go to see Ultron.

Secret Empire: Uprising #1
Natasha has her team infiltrate the Hydra youth choir; they leave Amadeus behind there with an image inducer. (He's no longer with Natasha's group in SE #4.)

Secret Empire #4
Both sides meet with Ultron/Hank (it helps if we assume it took them all a few days to figure out where exactly he was). In Washington, Namor turns over his shard...

Steve Rogers: Captain America #18 (framing sequence):
Namor has turned over the shard and is feeling meditative about it.

SE: Brave New World #4/1: Misty Knight and 4/2: Emma Frost
Placement of both of these is uncertain, but they seem to fit here.

X-Men Blue #7-9
Placement is flexible, but Emma has her shard by the final scene, at least.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #5 (Blade)
Placement flexible, but the Darkforce dome has been up for a while.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #5/2 (Domino)
Placement very flexible.

SE: Brave New World #1/1, 2/3, 3/3, 4/3, 5/3 (Invaders)
Namor talks early on about trying to keep Atlantis from getting drawn into the conflict, which suggests that it's before the shard comes into play. But the dialogue on the last few pages suggests that this is in fact after he gave up the shard. Placement ambiguous, for now; further suggestions are welcome.

All-New Guardians of the Galaxy Annual #1
Quill and the Guardians, having been traveling in search of help, decide to go back to Earth and take down the shield themselves.

Secret Warriors #1, scenes 2, 4, 6, 8
#2, scenes 2, 4, 6
The team coalesces around an Inhuman prison camp in New Jersey.

Secret Empire: United #1
Emma already has the shard. Placement fairly flexible.

Secret Empire: Underground #1
Holo-Tony's team are in the Savage Land. Hercules gets injured.

Steve Rogers: Captain America #19 -FB #1
Elisa has dinner with Steve.

Secret Empire #5:
Scott Lang is cheerfully writing to Cassie (in France) about having just been in the Savage Land. In a flashback (to sometime before X-Men Blue #9), we see Emma Frost taking Shang-Chi's shard.

Secret Empire #6

Secret Warriors #2, pp. 19-20
#3, scenes 2, 4, 6, 8
#4, scenes 2, 4, 6
#5 (1-2)
The team has road-tripped to New Tian; they get captured and end up on the helicarrier Telemachus, which then crashes.

Steve Rogers: Captain America #19 -FB #2
Steve and Odinson talk.

Secret Empire #7 (1-31)
Begins the day after #6.

Sam Wilson: Captain America #24
Sam suits up.

Secret Empire #7 (32)

Steve Rogers: Captain America #19
The day after SE #7, Steve prepares for his speech.

Captain America #25 (1-16)
Immediately after SR:CA #19. Steve's speech; attacks on Wakanda and New Tian; Sam's speech. There can be a small gap here as Sam's team prepares for the attack.

Secret Warriors #5 (3-19)
The Warriors attack the New Attilan prison.

Captain America #25 (17-23)
Sam's team joins the attack on the New Attilan prison.

Deadpool #34
Deadpool #35 (1-17)
Maria Hill gets Blackout's location, shortly before Secret Empire #8.

Captain America #25 (24-30)
"24 hours later." Sam's team is back in the Painted Desert.

Mighty Captain Marvel #6 (5-20)
Mighty Captain Marvel #7-8
The Guardians return. #8 is simultaneous with (and partly overlaps) Secret Empire #8.

Secret Empire #8

Secret Empire #9

Secret Empire #10
For Ironheart, Miles/Spider-Man, Kamala/Ms. Marvel, Jane/Thor, Kate/Hawkeye, Amadeus/Hulk, Laura/Wolverine, Carol/Captain Marvel and young Jean Grey, the "Generations" specials happen (or, rather, are experienced) between panels 4 and 5 of pg. 31. That's also when the flashback in Generations: Captain America is set.

Deadpool #35 (18 and 20--pg. 19 is a flashback to much earlier)
"Three days" after Secret Empire #10.

Secret Empire: Omega #1

Generations: Captain America #1 (the real-time sections)

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:58 am
by Antonio Gaviño
Clive_Reston wrote:
Looking over all the Secret Empire issues and tie-ins published to date, I was struck by how clear and tightly organized most of the chronology has been.
I've been greatly surprised by that as well.

Here's a few things I've noticed,

U.S.Avengers # 4 (page 20) should be added. It is the beginning of the same conversation Roberto DaCosta and Steve Rogers have on U.S.Avengers # 5.

Avengers # 9 happens after Secret Empire FCBD where Jane/Thor is vanished (page 7 panel 2).

Secret Empire BNW 2/1 (1-6p4) happens between pages 23 and 24 of Secret Empire #2, after Natasha leaves but before Holo-Tony and his team go on their quest. Secret Empire BNW (6p5-9) probably happens after a few days of the Patriot training.

More to come...

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:45 pm
by Clive_Reston
Thank you! I edited the first post to incorporate your observations, and added this week's books.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:09 am
by Antonio Gaviño
Steve Rogers: Captain America #17 (flashback):
"Madripoor before the Hydra Nation"--Steve finds Magneto and proposes to leave New Tian alone in exchange for his noninterference. This must take place sometime after Steve:Cap #15, although it arguably could take place sometime shortly after Secret Empire: FCBD.

SR Captain America #16 follows #15 immediately, Steve is still at the Red Skull's Berlin estate after killing him, Madame Hydra then introduces the new High Council of Hydra to Cap. Since Gorgon is with Cap at the time he sees Magneto in SR Captain America #17 FB, this flashback then occurs after SR Cap#16. There are two spots before the Hydra Nation where the flashback could fall, either before or after Secret Empire #0; but since he is already overseas in issue 16, it makes more sense for Cap to swing by Madripoor to leave the Skull's skull with Magneto before SE #0 instead of doing it in the middle of the takeover after SE #0.

So,
...
Thunderbolts #12
Steve Rogers: Captain America #15
Steve Rogers: Captain America #16
Steve Rogers: Captain America #17 FB (11-14)
Secret Empire #0
...

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:50 pm
by Clive_Reston
Thank you! I made that change, and added this week's books... or tried to, since we now have our first significant continuity glitch of the event.

Per SE:BNW #2/1, Rayshaun becomes Patriot sometime after the destruction of Las Vegas, specifically after Natasha has gone off and is training the kids; Holo-Tony gives him an AI version of Natasha so he can train too.

Per Champions #11, "eleven hours" after the destruction of Las Vegas, Patriot is searching for survivors with Ironheart and Miles/Spider-Man (and is unfamiliar enough with Ironheart that he asks her to repeat her name). He makes a point of having gotten his suit and shield from Tony.

Oh dear. Any bright ideas about how to reconcile these?

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:07 am
by Antonio Gaviño
I was afraid this was going to be the case as soon as I checked the previews for Champions #11.

Okay. No fear though, this is how it happened:

Secret Empire #1 (1-34:4) "Monday". Rayshaun is taken to the Mount, delivers Rick Jones' files, Holo Tony promises he'll check them on "Thursday". Rick's execution set for an "upcoming" day.

Secret Empire #1 (34:5-38) "Evening". The day before Secret Empire #2 (1-23) Captain America addresses the nation while Rick Jones is executed and Las Vegas obliteration begins.
SR Captain America #17 FB (3-4) Steve continues addressing the nation while Hydra warships destroy Las Vegas.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/1 (1-6:4) Early morning, Las Vegas destroyed. Holo Tony hands the Patriot suit to Rayshaun before leaving for Important mission (rescue effort?), Natasha off with the other youngsters already. Wonder Man and Hawkeye still at the Mount.
Secret Empire #2 (1-8) Las Vegas sky still hazy. Underground Avengers search for survivors, Wonder Man and Hawkeye present. Natasha at the scene, as well as Amadeus Hulk, Nadia Wasp, Viv and Ironheart.
Champions #11 "Afternoon", "11 hours" after Las Vegas obliteration (which means Hydra's assault lasted from the previous day's evening until the early hours of the morning). Skies not as hazy. Rescue effort by the Champions, Patriot present on his "first day on the job".
Secret Empire #2 (9-23) Probably "Thursday". Underground Avengers arrive at the Mount after rescue effort. Holo Tony watches Rick Jones' recording and shows it to the team. Natasha leaves the Mount, Spider Miles still there, Tony assembles his team.

Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/1 (6:5-8) Breakfast time. Rayshaun as Patriot.
Secret Empire #2 (24-26) "24 hours" after Secret Empire #2 (9-23). Natasha has been followed to Colorado by the Champions. Holo Tony and company's quest for cube fragments begins. Scott takes Pietro to see Sam Wilson.
Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/1 (9) Rayshaun goes to sleep after contacting Spider Miles and Falcon who are not at the Mount anymore.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:32 am
by Somebody
Antonio Gaviño wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:07 am
Secret Empire: Brave New World #2/1 (1-6:4) Early morning, Las Vegas destroyed. Holo Tony hands the Patriot suit to Rayshaun before leaving for Important mission (rescue effort?)
[...]
Secret Empire #2 (9-23) Probably "Thursday". Underground Avengers arrive at the Mount after rescue effort. Holo Tony watches Rick Jones' recording and shows it to the team...
Problem with that is that Tony has sobered up and gives the Patriot suit as thanks for delivering Rick's message, with the resulting hope things can still be fixed. Until he actually WATCHES the message, he's 'drunk', despairing and - most importantly - dismissive of the kid.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:57 am
by Antonio Gaviño
Holo-Tony said:
When you got here, I'd pretty much given up, and you lit a fire under my ass. Consider this my way of saying "thanks".
The way I took that line even before Champions #11 came out was that Rayshaun's insistence for Tony to do something and fight back is what lit a fire under his ass. Nowhere does he say, "Hey kid, thanks for bringing Rick's message". Tony is dismissive of the kid upon first meeting him, so it might have taken him a while to come to reason but it's not like he shows that attitude towards him any other time after that.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:02 pm
by Clive_Reston
Updated with this week's books! And incorporating Antonio's solution, which I suspect is the best we're going to get.

The formation of the Secret Warriors, and their trip to New Tian, now have to happen somewhat later than I'd thought, since "two days" after they leave New Tian they're at New Attilan in time for Captain America #25. I don't think that poses any real problems, though.

Looks like the Guardians return from their quest to find help elsewhere twice, in slightly but significantly different ways. (That "weren't you supposed to be..." in this week's Secret Empire leaves some wiggle room, though. It's possible to reconcile the scenes as the Guardians waiting to say, effectively, well, if you're REALLY that desperate... but maybe the next Mighty Captain Marvel will sort things out a bit.)

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:05 am
by robfj
Ultimates2 #8 has the Secret Empire banner but I had originally dismissed it as not connected, until Clive_Reston pointed out that Galactus recruiting Ps-Hawk is what depowered Philip Voght and the Troubleshooters and allowed them to be captured by Hydra in US Avengers.

However Clive may have missed Ultimates2 #9 which *doesn't* have the banner but *is* connected. Galactus sends the Shaper of Worlds to bring the team members who are outside the planetary shield to his aid. I don't know where it would fit in the Chitauri attack sequence.

It seems even Galactus & Shaper can't penetrate the shield because they don't get Black Panther. Who is busy confronting the Tiger God (from Sons of the Tiger and White Tiger stories) - we don't know where that's going yet. (And it seems we only have the special issue #100 to tie everything up.)

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:42 pm
by Clive_Reston
Thank you, robfj! Updated with this week's books, and a query about where the Invaders story from where SE: Brave New World is supposed to go--I suspect I've missed an important cue. I probably won't get to update this again until early September.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:32 am
by robfj
I've just read Ultimates 2 #100 and that's an unbannered tie-in too. And it gives a clue as to when #9 and #100 fit in. It shows Cap and the Iron Man AI fighting, which means it's alongside SE#4 or #6.

Galactus sends the team back to the SE war. But before that he gives them hope by saying he might be able to heal someone through the Planetary Shield - Cap? So I'd put this as late as possible and choose SE#6.

By the way Panther uses the power of the Tiger God not to get through the Shield but to get outside the multiverse to where the #100 action is happening, and defeat Logos to release Order, Chaos and the Living Tribunal.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:52 am
by Clive_Reston
Updated again!

Placing Ultimates2 #100's image of a Stevil/Holo-Tony fight during Secret Empire #6 (or even #4) is tempting, but I don't think it works. #100 continues directly from Ultimates2 #9, in which Rocket is with Carol's team (at exactly the moment when the Shaper sends her off). That means it has to be before Carol sends the Guardians away to get help from elsewhere (in Mighty Captain Marvel #6)... and in Secret Empire #3, the Guardians are already off in space, talking to the Kree. The Guardians don't get back until Mighty Captain Marvel #7, which leads directly into #8, which is simultaneous with Secret Empire #8. So the image of Evil Cap and Iron Man fighting has to be symbolic.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:45 am
by robfj
OK, you've convinced me. U2#100 has to happen very early, before the GotG leave, or very late, after they return. And it can't coincide with SE#4 or #6.

But I'm going to make a last stab at placing it near the end of SE.

Galactus doesn't actually recruit Psi-Hawk in U2#8. He spends the issue recruiting Ego-Prime and then introduces him to Psi-Hawk, Infinaut and Shaper of Worlds who are already in the Eternity Watch. So he brought the other 3 on board before #8. #8 doesn't follow directly from #7, and Galactus could have got Psi-Hawk soon after America's visit, still before USA#8.

This allows U2#8,9,100 to be positioned after GotG return in MCM#7. The #100 image of Iron Man fighting Cap is part of Galactus reviewing what's been happening so it makes sense for it to be part of the past so it could then be either SE#4 or #6.

An extra point is that some of the Troubleshooters are seen in the background of the prison in USA#7, not just USA#8. So if they were actually captured because Psi-Hawk had left them powerless then his recruitment by Galactus has to happen before USA#7. One way this is possible is if Psi-Hawk was recruited *before* America's visit in U2#7, even soon after the Troubleshooters' last appearance in U2#6. This avoids tight continuity between U2#7 and USA#7 and a rearrangement of their order in your plan.

Re: A preliminary stab at a Secret Empire sequence

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:37 pm
by robfj
I've just noticed you've missed out SE: United.

And you've got Sam-Cap #23 twice, either side of SE: Uprising.