Marvel Chronology Project

I believe the members of the X-Men should get a BTS listing for Strange Tales #128, because they release the photos of the Brotherhood to the news organization-BTS. There are also two FB's, one to Fantastic Four #28, and one to Strange Tales #120.

Sorry, but I can't get behind the notion that every member of the X-Men released the photos. Doesn't make sense. Don't even think it's possible. More likely that one person, representing the X-Men, released the photos, and without knowing who that was, we don't know who to credit with a bts appearance.

Many's the time when we hear that "the Avengers" have done this-and-that, but we don't credit them in the Project, because we don't know who they're talking about.

You are correct, we don't know which one, but we do know that the group, "just" did something behind the scenes, making them a part of the story. If the story said that "they" are "now" fighting Dr. Doom on 34th Street, would they get a BTS, even if we did not see it? It's the fact that they "just released the photos" that makes them BTS, not that they did something in general at some past point. It's the word "just" that lets us know when they did something.

Jason Doty wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:55 am You are correct, we don't know which one, but we do know that the group, "just" did something behind the scenes, making them a part of the story.

You are correct, the GROUP is part of the story, but we don't track chronologies of groups, only individuals.

If the story said that "they" are "now" fighting Dr. Doom on 34th Street, would they get a BTS, even if we did not see it?

If the story simply said "the X-Men are now fighting Doctor Doom," then no, they wouldn't (but Doom would!). The X-Men "appear" in Journey Into Mystery #109, but we only give credit to Angel, Beast, Cyclops and Iceman, NOT Marvel Girl, because we can't verify she's there.

If the story said "Some of the X-Men are fighting Doctor Doom," how would you list their chronologies?

And if the next issue said, "The remaining X-Men are fighting Mole Man," how would you list their chronologies?

It's the fact that they "just released the photos" that makes them BTS, not that they did something in general at some past point. It's the word "just" that lets us know when they did something.

That's a straw man. I never said the X-Men weren't listed because their actions were prior to the story. They don't get a listing here, not because of when it happened (although that CAN sometimes be a factor*), but because we can't identify them. If the newscast reported that "Charles Xavier has released photos of the the Brotherhood," Professor X would get a BTS listing, but nebulous X-Men don't.

*We know that the Avengers and Fantastic Four agreed at some point to share information, but to my knowledge, we don't list that as a BTS appearance in anyone's chronologies, not least because we don't know when it happened, and we don't know specifically who agreed.

Let me approach this a different way.

We both agree that the X-Men or some X-Men are operating BTS and their actions have an impact on the story.

Could we come up with a new type of listing, similar to the one from Professor X's chronology----IH2 181-BTS | cf W:O 29|-----, that would note that the characters, by deduction, of who is on the team at the time.

In the case of IH2 181-BTS | cf W:O 29|, we know Professor X is BTS IH2 181 because of W:O 29.

This could be a major help in comparative chronologies when coming up with placement suggestions.

Maybe

Professor X
....
UX 7
ST 128-BTS [LCUSP] (Likely candidate unspecified) or something else
XO:CY
....

This would be for all the X-Men that are operating during this time, so Professor X and the Original 5. If the story took place after UX 8 and before the end of UX 9, then we could rule out Professor X, because we know he was away on a mission. I don't know how often this happens and I would only consider this type of placement if the likely characters had an impact on the story.

If a future story lets us know that Professor X was out of town attending a meeting with Agent Duncan, at this time, then he would no longer be a candidate and the listing would be removed for him.

Anyway, food for thought

Jason Doty wrote:Anyway, food for thought

Good thought.

We'll log this for future reference.

Jason Doty wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:07 pm If a future story lets us know that Professor X was out of town attending a meeting with Agent Duncan, at this time, then he would no longer be a candidate and the listing would be removed for him.

See, I would consider that as evidence that HE was the one who released the photos, via the FBI.

I've just come across a reference in the Uncanny X-Men Official Index which may be relevant to this discussion.

In the listing for Uncanny X-Men #488, under Guest Stars, it lists New Avengers (bts, exact members unspecified..)

If it can be done that way in the Official Index, perhaps it could be done the same way on this site..?