Conan?

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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ChastMastr
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Re: Conan?

Post by ChastMastr » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:11 pm

I seem to recall reading that Thongor (warrior of lost Lemuria!) predates not only Conan but Kull as well.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/thongorlemuria.htm
ccording to the letter column of Creatures on the Loose#27, "Thongor's adventures... take place almost half a million years ago, eons before Conan or Kull, when Lemuria was the only continent on which modern man dwelt. The rest of the world - apparently at any rate - was still in the Pleistocene period and inhabited by Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal man." This means Thongor's world existed a little under 500,000 years B.C. They gave this as the reason for why there would be no crossovers with Conan or King Kull, but then go on to make a big deal over that "apparently" they slipped in there. "Let us add considerable emphasis to that 'apparently', however. Without giving away too much of what we have in mind... we think it safe to say that in other similarly isolated parts of the planet, a civilization or two may have sprung up at that time." Since (as far as I am aware) no further Thongor comics were made after the end of the Dragon King saga in CotL#29, one can only speculate what those plans for the future were. Any ideas, people? What other Pre-Cataclysmic civilizations were active around that time period in Marvel Comics? The Savage Land?
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/starseed.htm reveals that (Marvel Premiere#28 [fb]) - During a primitive era of man, around the age of the Neanderthals, a group of more intelligent, peaceful people built their own society on an unnamed mountain. This society developed into an age comparable to that of the Roman empire, many hundreds of thousands of years before the rest of the world.

Also, I seem to recall the Dark Rider storyline in Marvel Team-Up revealed the presence of an Age of Wizards. Olshevsky in his Marvel Team-Up Index stated that he was not sure where the Age of Wizards fell with relation to the visit of the Celestials, but he presumed that it happened thousands of years before the time of King Kull.---Per Degaton

The dating employed in the CotL#27 lettercol makes it problematic to place Thongor's adventures within the greater framework of established Marvel history. The mentioning of Hyperborea as existent before Lemuria also further muddies the waters. If the Hyborian Era runs from roughly 17,000 B.C. to the beginning of recorded history, and the Pre-Cataclysmic Era predates that from about 18,000 to 100,000 B.C. this would mean that Thongor's Lemurian Era predates the vast bulk of events on Marvel's prehistoric earth, including Varnae's transformation into a vampire, the sinking of Atlantis, the destruction of the Deviant's empire by the Celestials, the rise and fall of the Hyborian Era, and the Stone and Bronze Ages. Moreover, it mentions a previous Hyperborean Age (which might or might not be connected to Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborean Era which emerged between Ice Ages). It would likely be safest to just say Thongor's adventures occurred outside the normal Marvel Universe (Earth-616), but with the true love of the obscurantist fanboy I can't help but want to fit it in somewhere. It could be that while the rest of the world was populated by Cro-Mags and Neanderthals, the progenitors of the Lemurians, Phondrath and Evalla, represented highly evolved creations of the Nineteen Gods' that were later absorbed into mainline humanity which the Celestials had allowed to evolve normally.
There is evidence that the Clark Ashton Smith version of Hyperborea could be a part of the Marvel Universe. In Doctor Strange III#8, Doctor Strange was shown as having The Book of Eibon, a magical book from Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborea stories.

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Re: Conan?

Post by JephYork » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:14 pm

EXCALIBUR #47
scripter – artist – Alan Davis
comment: Cameo by Conan.
Excalibur I#48's story was titled Kylun the Barbarian, so that would indicate that it was him having a dalliance with Saturnyne.
What? No. Wrong on so many levels.

First off, Excalibur #46 was titled Colin the Barbarian. And it was a reference to the fact that Kylun grew up on a savage, sword-and-sorcery-type world. That's all. We even see those scenes on-panel immediately before the title is shown.

Just because issue #46 has a jokey Conan reference in the title, and issue #47 shows Saturnyne sleeping with some big buff guy, doesn't in any way imply that that guy was intended to be Conan. :roll:

Also:
ESSENTIAL TOMB OF DRACULA #2.
cover date: 2004
wrtier – Marv Wolfman artist – Gene Colan inker – Tom Palmer
comment: Reprints Tomb of Dracula #26 with a cameo by Kull.
Since when is a reprint of a previous appearance relevant?

-Jeph!

Enda80
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Re: Conan?

Post by Enda80 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:09 pm

The hair seems right, and the medallion he wore resembles the one the famed Cimmerian wore. Anyone know how to get in touch with Alan Davis?

The figure in Incomplete Death's Head#11-12 was definetly the famed Cimmerian, since party his hat read "Crom Rules".

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Not MU

Post by Somebody » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:15 pm

Let's take the hypothetical position - and it IS strictly hypothetical - that you're right (hypothetically, that is) for a moment.

If, hypothetically, these were versions of Conan, then these hypothetical versions of Conan would not be the Marvel Universe Conan. So, even under this hypothetical scenario, it is completely irrelevant.

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Re: Conan?

Post by JephYork » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:39 pm

Well, IF it IS Conan ... it COULD be the MU Conan. Or it could, just as easily, be a Conan from any other alternate reality. So, it's not necessarily "irrelevant", there's just no way to tell.

And I'm pretty sure that the symbols on the medallion "Conan" is wearing have something to do with Otherworld, or Roma, or Saturnyne. I feel like I've seen 'em before in an Alan Davis book.

My point still stands: the original contention of whoever you quoted is incorrect -- the "Colin the Barbarian" title of #46 has ZIP to do with the identity of a muscular man appearing in #47.
Anyone know how to get in touch with Alan Davis?
Is there ANY way I can get you to knock off this line of thinking? "Oh, I know how to solve this! Let's track down a creator's contact information, just to ask them what they intended when they drew a throwaway guy in two panels of a comic sixteen years ago! He won't mind that!"

Every time you say things like "I wrote to John Byrne and asked him if he based his Dr. Doom origin on the Shroud's origin", or "face to face at a con, I pointed out to Peter David that Daredevil actually uncovered the Sin-Eater's identity", my skin crawls. What, exactly, is Peter David supposed to do with that information?

This is why fans get stereotyped the way they do in popular culture.

-Jeph!

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Re: Conan?

Post by JephYork » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:52 pm

The figure in Incomplete Death's Head#11-12 was definetly the famed Cimmerian, since party his hat read "Crom Rules".
... ... ...the notion that he's WEARING A PARTY HAT, WRITTEN IN ENGLISH doesn't give you pause at all?

To heck with the English. He's wearing a party hat!

EDIT: I just checked the issue. He's also wearing a clown nose. I don't think this is Conan, Enda. At least not "our" Conan.

-Jeph!

ChastMastr
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Re: Conan?

Post by ChastMastr » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:18 pm

ROTFL. This is definitely not the Conan we're looking for. ("We can go about our business...")

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Re: Conan?

Post by Starman » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:13 pm

SeanCurtin wrote:This site has a mostly-complete chronology of the Conan comics, based on the timelines that Roy Thomas wrote for the Conan Saga reprint magazine.
I tried to sort my Conan comics collection with the help of that site a few years ago, but when I read all the comics in that order from the beginning to the end, many errors started to appear. I look forward to when we on the board start roll up our sleeves and try to find which order to place these stories. When that time comes, I volunteer to help analysing them, provided I don't have to do all of them myself. :wink:
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Re: Conan?

Post by Kevin W. » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:36 pm

SeanCurtin wrote:This site has a mostly-complete chronology of the Conan comics, based on the timelines that Roy Thomas wrote for the Conan Saga reprint magazine.

As Enda pointed out, that website is missing several flashbacks. As Starman pointed out, that website has errors in the reading order. Finally, we don't use other websites alone as a reason to create or change MCP listings. While that website is a good starting point for chronology, it's going to take actual analysis of the Marvel Conan books by us to nail together a Conan MCP listing.
Hulk look forward to when we on the board start roll up our sleeves and try to find which order to place these stories. When that time comes, Hulk volunteer to help analysing them, provided Hulk don't have to do all of them myself.
While there is not yet a "Call for Analysis" on these books, all Marvel Conan stories should be on the Checklist. You don't neccesarily need to wait for a "Call for Analysis", feel free to get the ball rolling yourself! :)
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ChastMastr
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Re: Conan?

Post by ChastMastr » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:51 pm

Yipes! I did not know that... as I accumulate back issues, I was hoping to organize them into chronological order and then read them, so I would start with stories of Conan's youth and (I assume?) end with his King Conan period... hmmm...

David

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Re: Conan?

Post by Adamant » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:13 pm

I think the easiest way to go about this would be to do an analysis of all the Conan the Barbarian and King Conan books first, then do the Savage Sword books with their random chronology and put those stories between the issues where they fit.

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