Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by Kevin W. » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:37 pm

Somebody wrote: Well:
  1. Why would he need to "improvise", as Veranke put it, in that case? [Note that the following scene with Tigra is apparently intended to signify that the transition from one Skrull Pym to the next was *not* flawless]
  2. The Skrull Pym who got killed by "Dugan" & co was implied not to be the first one to have Gone Rogue ("How many Hank Pyms are we going to have to switch out?" doesn't really make sense if the Pym with Tigra was only the second Skrull Pym.)
  3. Has it been established yet that they can give the memories of the dead to replacements? [I know Elektra & Dugan both looked dead - but hell, Dugan looked just as dead (and was originally intended to be so) in Wolverine: Origins #10]. If Dan Slott's word can be trusted, at least one of the replaced is going to be back post-SI...
  4. How nuts would you have to be to not only include a man who's been driving the Skrulls linked to him to rebellion in the mix (given that he was apparently essential, that could be called a calculated risk), but also incorporate at *least* one skrull who's already gone dolally from that link? The poor re-replacement skrull wouldn't last a week! :)
"Flawless" isn't the right word, perhaps. But there does seem to be some sort of psychic uplink established when they take on their "deep cover" identities, (as those magical rituals seem to indicate). Speaking of those rituals, is THAT the "technique" that the Skrulls learned from the cloned Reed Richards in the recent New Avengers issue? This is supposedly the ultimate way to make Skrulls undetectable, (to science, magic, psychic powers, and Logan's nose) and Reed gives the Skrulls a magical ritual?!?

Since Bendis isn't spelling anything out, we're left doing an awful lot of interpretation, aren't we?

EDIT: And looking about the internet, I find someone saying that the latest Skrull Pym calls himself Criti Noll in Avengers: The Initiative #14. Can anyone who reads that book confirm?
I'll check my issue when I get home if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

Perhaps the Yellowjacket Skrulls has so many identity problems because of the prior existing mental problems of Hank Pym?
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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by Kevin W. » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:06 pm

EDIT: And looking about the internet, I find someone saying that the latest Skrull Pym calls himself Criti Noll in Avengers: The Initiative #14. Can anyone who reads that book confirm?
Confirmed. In a flashback to the attack by K.I.A., (back in Issues #9-12) Skrulljacket thinks, "Again, there is no 'earthy' way the real Pym could survive this encounter. But as Criti Noll, as a Super-Skrull, it is simply a matter of using the reflexes of the Black Panther...and the speed of Quicksilver...and this witless dolt will believe he's incinerated me."
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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by Somebody » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:30 pm

Kevin W. wrote:"Flawless" isn't the right word, perhaps. But there does seem to be some sort of psychic uplink established when they take on their "deep cover" identities, (as those magical rituals seem to indicate).
That seems to be indicated in the issue - 'Dugan' talks about Skrull Pym "sharing [his] head" with Real Pym.

That wouldn't explain how - or WHY - they'd want to copy someone they regard as a traitor into the mix.
Kevin W. wrote:Perhaps the Yellowjacket Skrulls has so many identity problems because of the prior existing mental problems of Hank Pym?
Actually, while Skrull Dugan pointedly attributes it to that; all Skrull Pym wants to tell him is that he's run the numbers and they can't win with the plan they have - all they'd do, at best, is end up in "a violent stalemate" and probably lose (this continues into a fight when Skrull Pym assumes, probably correctly, that Skrull Dugan's going to kill him. Skrull Pym uses no powers that Pym doesn't have) - so they need to retreat rather than get massacred. The idea seems to be that Pym's smart enough to let Skrull Pym see the flaws, and forsees how SI 7-8 will go, while all the others are too fanatical to do anything other than follow the Queen blindly.
Kevin W. wrote:Confirmed. In a flashback to the attack by K.I.A., (back in Issues #9-12) Skrulljacket thinks, "Again, there is no 'earthy' way the real Pym could survive this encounter. But as Criti Noll, as a Super-Skrull, it is simply a matter of using the reflexes of the Black Panther...and the speed of Quicksilver...and this witless dolt will believe he's incinerated me."
And this brings me back to the original point - are we to assume that we have two skrulls with identical names? Because the "You will need to improvise" ending of MA 17 - contrasted with the reprised Tigra scene where his "improvising" causes him to put his foot in it badly - says that they've lost the last Skrull Pym completely.

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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:24 am

Somebody wrote:are we to assume that we have two skrulls with identical names?
Maybe "Criti Noll" is the "John Smith" of Skrulls? :|
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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by Peter Fabricius » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:21 pm

Sorry to resurrect this.

But I only got around to reading the Secret Invasion cross-over now.

The way I read the scene in Avengers : The Initiative #14 is that when he says 'But as Criti Noll, as a Super Skrull...'
I got the impression that Criti Noll meant Super Skrull, it is not his name, but his title.
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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:46 pm

Peter, that's BRILLIANT. Seriously.
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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by Peter Fabricius » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:44 pm

And the I read New Avengers #45, where Veranke says

'Your name is Criti Noll'

So, it is his name. And the name of an earlier Hank Pym skrull.

Maybe it is the skrull equivalent of John Smith?

Oh, well...
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Re: Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42

Post by JephYork » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:01 pm

In Secret Invasion #3-4, Bendis has Queen Veranke lie to Tony Stark, saying he's a Skrull. In #3, she calls him Kr'ali ... and in #4 she says that his Skrull name is Kl'riki Dulu.

C'mon Brian. It's not difficult to check last month's script. :roll:

I really don't think we should be paying too much heed to the "two Criti Nolls" thing.

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