Atlantis attacks chronology

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by frogcoin » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:51 am

Hi all,

i have been reading the X-titles and have been matching all chronology with no problem and with the help of the MCP, maybe a slight mismatch or personal preference but today i found a mayor issue that is messing with my whole chronology and is the attlantis attacks crossover, so far this is how i have my chronology around that place

Image

but then i wanted to expand my chronology introducing some issues of attlantis attacks and i found out that storm chronology colides with everything, for obvious reasons UX 245 and then UX@13 since after that she would go and become a kid until xtinction agenda around ux270 so AWC@ 4 best placement should be:
UX245
UX@ 13
AWC@ 4
UX 246

but then we have NM 76 that should be exactly there, later the New Mutants go to asgard and after that they come back before X-Factor arrives in XF 51, also NM 88 states XF 51 as his previous in continuity as the ship is just there and archangel is seeing flying out at top speed, moira looks influenced already by the shadow king who started working on the peoples minds on muir island in UX 253 and at this issue we see storm as a child already so the best placement for NM@ 5 should be
NM 87
NM@ 5
NM92 FB
NM 88
yes i forgive them that in NM 87 they see the ship, they can go for a walk, no problem but NM@ 5 must be there because they say they were on asgard and they cannot find the ship and are wondering if X-Factor is still in space. NM@ 5 throws the plot to XF@ 4

and then we have X-Factor who was in space and just arrives in XF 51 ship lands and we can more or less fit with no problem XF@ 4 just after that
XF 51
XF@ 4
XF 52

as i said the graph and info im showing is all is based in the MCP almost at full extent but when i match all together it doenst fit. any suggestions for where to fit AWC@ 4 that match all chronologies? my head is already spinning a little bit. maybe ill read attlantis attack more in deep for a better insight *brickwall*

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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:37 pm

If you check the archives, I had done the analysis of The New Mutants and X-Factor's placement for Atlantis Attacks. I wasn't sure of Storm's placement (or Moira's) though as I wasn't following the Uncanny title at the time but the New Mutants annual story takes place during the last bit of NM 87 after the New Mutants arrive back on Earth and just before they spot Ship landing (as seen at the beginning of XF 51 from X-Factor's perspective). For Beast and Marvel Girl, their appearance in the Atlantis Attacks has to take place after they greet the New Mutants upon their return to Earth (in NM 88) and before they next appear in X-Factor 52.

Edit: So, to answer your question: XF 51 and NM 88 take place at roughly the same time and interweave. It also appears that there is a gap of time between X-Factor and the New Mutants reunion and the rest of the story in both XF 51 and NM 88. Not sure how much but when I'm back home on Tues evening/Wed, I'll double check.
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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:55 am

The concluding half of Atlantis Attacks has to take place shortly after Inferno (and during/right after the Acts of Vengeance... mess?). For X-Factor and The New Mutants, more issues take place in the same chunk of time here than for the X-Men (and possibly rest of the Marvel Universe?). For them it looks like this: (I'm probably not using the correct symbols and such but I hope you get the general idea of the calendar placements...)

Inferno (UX 243 & XF 39)
XF 40
NM 76
(gap with insert stories. Sometime around here UX 244 takes place.)
XF 41
NM 77
XF 42
NM 78 (there is no gap here for other stories to take place for X-Factor or the New Mutants because of Ship's appearances and dialogue in XF 41, NM 77, NM 78-XF 43)
XF 43-50 (Judgement War)/NM 79-NM 87 page 1-27 (Asgard War/Acts of Vengeance) Sometime during all this most of the Atlantis Attacks (Chapter 1-8) takes place including UX@ 13.
NM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9
NM 87 page 31
XF 51 page 8-end
NM 88 page 1-14
XF@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 10
WOSM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 11
AWC@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter12
T@ 14 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 13
FF@ 22 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 14 (Storm is still an adult here and appears as one of the Brides of Set alongside Marvel Girl [and Beast who isn't a Bride!] in these issues.)

NM 88 page 15-30 & NM 89 (These probably take place for the New Mutants at the same time as the Atlantis Attacks concluding issues but it's possible there is a time gap before they phone their families and Cable manages to elude Freedom Force a while longer than the events here imply. Atlantis Attacks MUST take place before Master Mold attacks the X-Men in UX 246-247 (where Rogue goes through the Siege Perilous) and UX 248 where Longshot leaves and Storm is turned into a child by Nanny. If a big chunk of time can't be wedged between pages in here for the New Mutants, I propose a change to Moira MacTaggart's chronology and the Shadow King's BTS as well. Oh man, this means a change for Freedom Force too then!)

Otherwise, there is a gap here for X-Factor where Sabertooth is stalking Archangel and the New Mutants are getting to know Cable.
This gap is where all the X-Men appearances between UX 245-260 need to go which includes the creation of the "Muir Island" X-Men team. This new placement implies that Moira was influenced by the Shadow King to first attempt to recruit Wolfsbane before gathering the rest of the Muir Island team. Then Forge encounters the Shadow King on the astral plane... I don't have this run of UX, just the X-Men Index... so is it possible? Does this make sense story-wise? These are the only possible placements for the New Mutants' and X-Factor's appearances in the Atlantis Attacks storyline.

XF 52-54
UX 261-263~XF 55 (This is where Jean goes to the ruins of the X-mansion and meets up with Banshee and Forge and the Ravens, Genoshian, and Morlock storylines intersect.)
XF 56~UX 264 (There is probably where BTS Forge and Banshee gave Cable and the New Mutants permission to use the X-Mansion basement mentioned in NM 90.)
XF 57/NM 90/UX 265-266
XF 58/NM 91/UX 269,UX 267
XSOS 2
Days of Future Present Annuals crossover (FF@ 23, XF@ 5, NM@ 6, UX@ 14) X-Factor, New Mutants, and most importantly, Storm meet up. Franklin & Phoenix also visit Wolverine, Psylocke, and Jubilee in Madripoor here.

Proposed changes to:
Blob
NM 82
*NM 86
*NM 88
*NM 89

UX 255
XMF 2
*moved
A 312
PUN2 29
H2 369-FB
H2 369
*moved
M/CP 82/2

Crimson Commando
NM 78
NM 80
NM 86
*NM 88
*NM 89

UX 255-BTS
H2 369-FB
H2 369
*moved
A:DV

MacTaggart, Moira
M/CP 24
*NM 88
*NM 89

UX 253
UX 254
UX 255
UX 257
UX 258
AF 88
UX 259
*moved
XCAL 26

Mystique
NM 82
*NM 87
*NM 88

UX 254
UX 255
XF@ 6/3
H2 369-FB
H2 369
*moved
M/CP 82/2

Pyro
NM 82
*NM 86
*NM 88
*NM 89

UX 255
XMF 2
*moved
A 312
PUN2 29
H2 369-FB
H2 369
*moved
M/CP 84/4

Shadow King
NM 34
*NM 88-BTS
*NM 89-BTS

UX 253
UX 255
UX 257
UX 259
*moved
UX 265

Super Sabre
NM 78
*NM 88
*NM 89

UX 255-BTS
*moved
M/CP 86/2-BTS
Last edited by metaldragon on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:12 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by frogcoin » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:02 am

Thanks for taking your time, actually all you said make sense and i realized that it was possible to fit the general chronology that way but still there are some thing specifically from UX253 that doesnt fit very well, ill show you some key points:

1.- at the beggining they show Storm showing up as a child (OK)
2.- in page 13 magneto is in muir island discussing with moira, she is arguin because he joined the hellfire club, he replies that she must simply trust him and them moira replies:
"charles did that remember? you give your word to him youd look after his students the new mutants... as headmaster of xavier school for gifted youngsters"
"so what happened man? where the devil are they?!!!"
then we have a editors note in that image that theyre in asgard in "a whole lot of trouble as seen in current issues of their own title"
also notice that moira is in this whole comic normaly dressed, no wearing or acting "shadow-king-possesed-like"

this contradicts your placement of the asgard plot and also moira showing up already possesed trying to recruit rahne because moira should be aware that they already return from asgard, i though that maybe splitting UX 253 but the first page already shows storm as a kid so it is out of the question

The posible way as i see is if we ignore the editors note and we assume that moira is being taking over slowly by the shadow king, so sometimes she acts/dress in possesed state and sometimes in normal state but doesnt have any memory recolection of her actions when shes possesed, with that in mind it fits perfectly in your description assuming that she first tries to recruit rahne before gathering the muir island team

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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:33 pm

I thought at first that maybe the sections with the X-Men were set later and the Muir Island sections earlier but the main problem, as I understand it, is Polaris. She has contact with the X-Men before she has contact with the Muir Island group which keeps the temporal alignment of the events presented in UX for the period between 246-260 happening around the same time.
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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:07 pm

Woops, forgot Legion, he makes an appearance in NM 89 and appears to be possessed by the Shadow King as well:

Legion
NM 44
*NM 89
UX 254
UX 255
XMF 2
UX 257
UX 258
UX 259
*moved
UX 269

EDIT:
I went back and checked each of Freedom Force's chronologies and discovered that Avalanche doesn't appear in NM 82 so this needs to be removed from his listing.
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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by frogcoin » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:31 pm

i dont see the problem with polaris, she just called the X-men in UX 249 after get rid of the "malice" personality (lest seen in XF 39 end of infierno) and then got caught and sent to the savage land, in UX 250 she is returning with the X-men but they were separated by gatekeeper, the UX 253 fits ok because shes returning in a ship from savage land. lets see, what i understand from you is more or less something like this:

XF 40
NM 76
UX 244
XF 41
NM 77
XF 42
UX@ 13/2
UX 245
UX@ 13
NM 78 (there is no gap here for other stories to take place for X-Factor or the New Mutants because of Ship's appearances and dialogue in XF 41, NM 77, NM 78-XF43)
XF 43-50 (Judgement War)/NM 79-NM 87 page 1-27 (Asgard War/Acts of Vengeance) Sometime during all this most of the Atlantis Attacks takes place including UX@ 13.
NM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9
NM 87 page 31
XF 51 page 8-end
NM 88 page 1-14
XF@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 10
WOSM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 11
AWC@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter12
T@ 14 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 13
FF@ 22 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 14 (Storm is still an adult here and appears as one of the Brides of Set alongside Marvel Girl [and Beast who isn't a Bride!] in these issues.)
NM 88 page 15-30 & NM 89
UX 246-260
XF 52-54
UX 261-263~XF 55 (This is where Jean goes to the ruins of the X-mansion and meets up with Banshee and Forge and the Ravens, Genoshian, and Morlock storylines intersect.)
XF 56~UX 264 (There is probably where BTS Forge and Banshee gave Cable and the New Mutants permission to use the X-Mansion basement mentioned in NM 90.)
XF 57/NM 90/UX 265-266
XF 58/NM 91/UX 269,UX 267

so, did you fit with polaris now? ;)

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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:06 pm

You misunderstood what I was saying. Yes, Polaris' appearances do fit with this arrangement.

I was saying IF nothing (in this case Polaris) connected the X-Men story segments to the rest of the story segments involving Moira, Forge, Banshee, Freedom Force, etc the "everybody else" segments could take place before the "X-Men" segments of story in that run of UX issues and that might solve the problem of how Moira and Freedom Force can battle the Reavers before they appear in the New Mutants 88 & 89. But since Polaris DOES connect the two parallel storylines, the only way to solve the problem is what we've done here.
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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by frogcoin » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:31 pm

Sorry metaldragon youre right i misunderstood what you were saying, looks like once more the chronology has been saved by the chronologyproject :mrgreen: lets see in the future how that arrangement fit with the big picture of the MU chronology. Thanks for the help and you did a deep analysis of Freedom Force also.

i wanted to point 2 things dunno if you have the info:
1.- Do you know where i can find the act of vengeance chronology arc that paul broucier posted when we had the old version of the forum? maybe we could get some insights from that.
2.- There are some loose ends in the background history of the serpent crown in the chronology project, for example, theres no placement of the Thing and scarlet witch history fighting the serpent crowns of all universes even when the history said that they belong to the 616 Universe; but thats not really something very important for me now because im working only with the X related mutants. maybe something of interest for someone more illustrated in chronology research of FF or Avengers ;)

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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by frogcoin » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:03 am

Hi all,

Sorry to refloat this post but i have found another point that colides with the whole chronology because of the atlantis attacks crossover.
Im actually reading Excalibur and so far Captain Britain should be from Xcal 34 to xsos 2 so:

Cap Britain
XCAL 27-34
XSOS 2

And the general X-titles chronology goes this way after the changes i did with metaldragon, the only difference is now im inserting X-men Spotlight on starjammers, the time isnt exactly but it goes between XF50 and XF51:

XCAL 27-34 (not excatly, just before XSOS 2)
XF 43-50 (Judgement War)/NM 79-NM 87 page 1-27 (Asgard War/Acts of Vengeance) Sometime during all this most of the Atlantis Attacks takes place including UX@ 13.
XSOS 1
NM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9
XSOS 2
NM 87 page 31
XF 51 page 8-end
NM 88 page 1-14
XF@ 4, WOSM@ 5, AWC@ 4, T@ 14, FF@ 22
NM 88 page 15-30 & NM 89
UX 246-260

But now when i was placing XCAL 27 the chronology of Alysande Stuart colides the chronology, it states:
XCAL 27
UX 253
UX 254
UX 255-BTS
XCAL 30
XCAL 34

After reading closely those, for starters, it should be arranged:
UX 253 (Alysande finds with amanda stefton and states that Excalibur and his brother are still vanished)
UX 254
UX 255-BTS
XCAL 27 (Excalibur and Alysande found each other for the first time after the crosstime caper)
XCAL 30
XCAL 34

This states that UX 253-255 should be before XCAL 27 contrary to what has been set by atlantis crossover so far, any ideas? :|

EDIT: Hmmm looking at the original arrangement i had at the beginning of this topic it fits nicely excalibur that way but if done that way how do we fit the problem with the atlantis attacks crossover?

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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:02 pm

If you check back, the placement of the X-men Spotlight on Starjammers mini was a problem and had been discussed before. The main conclusion seems to be around (right before?) the Days of Future Present Annuals crossover. That seemed to be the best spot because in XSOS Widget is active, Shadowcat is back with the team (after being kidnapped during the Crosstime Caper?) and Nightcrawler doesn't have problems teleporting. Professor X had to appear in XSOS sometime after his brief appearance in UX 50. Excalibur's costumes were explained away as art errors.
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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:17 pm

Could all of Atlantis Attacks occur after UX 245 and before Marvel Super Heroes v3 #6-9 for the X-Men, between NM 92-f/b and XF 41 for the New Mutants, and between XF 40 and 41 for X-Factor without causing any glaring continuity errors.

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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by frogcoin » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:16 am

So far Atlantis has been the only crossover giving me trouble when trying to fit everything together, the prblem radicates in that theres a lot of puntual plotlines that dont allow locate the crossover easily, namely:

- Storm if transformed by orphan maker into a child
- New mutants return from asgard, and after that in that menatime they go intro atlantis attacks crossover and find X-factor ship
- X-Factor ship just arrives after being in space around Xf 51
- development of the story between moira and shadow king
more detailed in reading the first posts of the topic

metaldragon i found a perfect place to fit everything together right at the end of the X-tinction agenda, at that point is when we have again a full grown storm and so far after i checked everything i have found no issues with this placement, even excalibur fits finely good, the order i suggest goes:

UX 245
UX@ 13 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 3
NM 78 (there is no gap here for other stories to take place for X-Factor or the New Mutants because of Ship's appearances and dialogue in XF 41, NM 77, NM 78-XF43)
XF 43-50 (Judgement War)/NM 79-NM 87 page 1-27 (Asgard War/Acts of Vengeance) Sometime during all this most of the Atlantis Attacks takes place including
UX 246-258
XCAL 27-34
XSOS 1
NM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 9
XSOS 2
NM 87-97; UX 259-272; XF 51-62 (lots of events, X-tinction agenda ends in XF62)
XF@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 10
WOSM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 11
AWC@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter12
T@ 14 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 13
FF@ 22 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 14
XF 63

its quite complicated to see it as a listing, but if its needed i can provide the screenshot of my graph :wink:
the only detail is storm having a long hair but what the heck if eveything else fits ok, maybe we can argue a lot of time happens between X-tinction and Atlantis or an "art error". :lol:

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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:22 pm

No. This has been gone over. Atlantis Attacks HAS to take place right after the Asgard War storyline in The New Mutants because the NM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks story takes place during NM 87 between pages 27 & 31. IT CANNOT GO ANYWHERE ELSE. That means X-Factor HAS to appear in Atlantis Attacks between NM 88 and XF 52. Everything else has to be worked around this.

The only place XSOS can go for X-Factor is either before or after the Ravens/Genocian storyline which ran from XF 52-58 (and crossed over with UX 261-267). Why do you believe it has to fit before XF 52? Professor X doesn't make another appearance until the Muir Island Saga crossover (UX 275-279, XF 69, UX 280, XF 70) where he returns to Earth to help the "X" teams fight the Shadow King. There is plenty of time for XSOS to fit between Professor X's appearances in XF 50 and UX 275. That is a large gap.

Phoenix appears in the Days of Future Present Annuals crossover which takes place for X-Factor between XF 58 & 59 (a note in XF 59 informs us of this). Now, like I wrote earlier: because of Widget, Shadowcat, and Nightcrawler- XSOS must come after Shadowcat is free from being kidnapped (and probably after Nightcrawler is healed and able to teleport normally again, though it's possible XSOS can go before that issue). Sorry, I don't know which issues of Excalibur those take place in.

Is someone able to check the archives and pull up the original posts where XSOS was discussed? All the details are in there.

I have placed X-Factor's apperance in XSOS between XF 58 and the Days of Future Present Annuals crossover.

Is there a conflict in plotlines/character appearances that connect Excalibur and Uncanny X-Men? Please explain what they are.
Last edited by metaldragon on Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atlantis attacks chronology

Post by metaldragon » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:13 pm

Further problems with your placement: Storm is a Bride of Set from the moment she is captured in UX@ 13 until the end of the Atlantis Attacks storyline in FF@ 22. No other events involving her can take place while she is Ghaur's mind slave. Also, for the rest of the Marvel heroes involved, the Atlantis Attacks events take place around the Acts of Vengeance storyline and cannot be moved so far forward in time.
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