ASM 203 and Dazzler 1

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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newtron
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ASM 203 and Dazzler 1

Post by newtron »

From Archive #46:
Posted: 17 Apr 2004 04:09 pm Post subject: I am saying that the chronology needs to be fixed
By Ian Rusten

In your chronology, Dazzler 1 and 2 (in which Spiderman appears) take place right after ASM 203, but according to Olshevsky's Marvel Team Up index 6- published by Marvel some years ago- Spiderman's app in Dazzler 1 and 2 takes place later- in fact before his app in MTU 102 and PPSSM 53. This affects other chronologies- since many marvel characters appear in Dazzler 1 and 2
Posted: 18 Apr 2004 08:16 am Post subject: Index references
By Paul Bourcier [DIRECTOR]

This is an example in which Official Marvel Index references contradict one another, and our general rule of thumb is to accept the most recently published reference. Why? Because Olshevsky's indexes were works in progress. Lists of errata in subsequent issues of any given index and corrections made in subsequent index series testify to that fact.

In the case you mention, the Official Marvel Index to Marvel Team-Up #6 (published July 1987) notes that Spidey's last appearance before M/TU 102, a story that occurs in May, was DAZZ 2. However, the errata listing in the Official Index to the X-Men #5 (published August 1994) notes that the X-Men appeared in DAZZ 1-2 between UX 142 and UX 143, the latter being a Christmas story. And if you look at the Official Marvel Index to the X-Men #3 (June 1994), you'll see that M/TU 100 occurs after UX 144.
Thus, Spidey must appear in DAZZ 1-2 before M/TU 100, so it's not his last appearance before M/TU 102. My conclusion is that further research caused Olshevsky to move DAZZ 1-2 back on the calendar several months.

Also, IIRC, there is a reference in DAZZ 1 to that issue occurring "shortly" after ASM 203.
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Paul B.
I'm not sure DAZZ 1 should directly follow ASM 203, at least for Spider-Man's chronology. I believe the reference Paul is referring to is that, when Spidey meets up with Dazzler he says "Hi, lady! Short time no see.*", with the editor's note "Spidey met the Dazzler in issue #203 of Amazing Spider-Man. --Louise.". I think that reference, and the M/TU 100 constraint Paul outlines above, still leaves lots of room for placement. The problem with the current placement is that, while Spidey is swinging around in DAZZ 1 he says "Quiet night! No crime! No action! No pictures for the Daily Bugle!" At the time, however, Spider-Man is working for the Globe, not the Bugle.

Does anybody know of any specific reason why DAZZ 1 immediately follows ASM 203 right now?
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Re: ASM 203 and Dazzler 1

Post by Paul Bourcier »

neutron wrote:
"Quiet night! No crime! No action! No pictures for the Daily Bugle!" At the time, however, Spider-Man is working for the Globe, not the Bugle.
Well then, Spidey was right -- there were no photos for the Daily Bugle! :wink:

I haven't double-checked the whole Bugle/Globe thing, but perhaps Spidey erroneously referred to his employer in his own thoughts. Understandable; thoughts can be wrong, and after all, he did work for long time at the Bugle.
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Re: ASM 203 and Dazzler 1

Post by cweed4 »

The fix might be worse than the problem. Considering the placement would have to be moved significantly forward past ASM 212 when he returns to the Bugle. It might be preferable to assume that Peter misspoke as Paul suggests. Or, maybe he is just giving the Bugle a little razzing (eg. "Ha, they aren't getting any news!" or "Boy, I'm sure glad I don't take pix for that fishwrap anymore!").
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Re: ASM 203 and Dazzler 1

Post by StrayLamb »

I would like to reopen this topic for discussion, and posit that the correct placement for DAZZ 1-2 is in fact just prior to M/TU 102 for Spider-Man, as per the Official Marvel Index to Marvel Team-Up #6. This correctly places the scene in DAZZ 1 at a time when Peter is working back at the Bugle, with no hand-waving required. It also places DAZZ 1 alongside other comics with similar cover dates (March 1981), rather than with comics dated around April 1980.

As newtron pointed out, the current position of DAZZ 1 being placed immediately after ASM 203 for Spidey is due to his off-hand comment, "Hi, lady! Short time no see," but Spidey is well known for such off-hand comments, and this in no way requires such a close placement. In today's vernacular, such a comment can well be taken to mean the exact opposite.

I would like to add that in Dazzler's own chronology, DAZZ 1-2 is placed prior to FF 217 (also dated April 1980), in which Johnny apparently meets Dazzler for the first time, and exhibits no prior knowledge of her at all, while in DAZZ 2, Johnny's paid big bucks for tickets to her concert, and is anxious to get there on time.

Paul Bourcier commented that the later published Official Index to the X-Men #5 notes that the X-Men appeared in DAZZ 1-2 between UX 142 and UX 143, the latter being a Christmas story, while #3 states that M/TU 100 occurs after UX 144, concluding that further research caused Olshevsky to move DAZZ 1-2 back on the calendar several months since publishing the Official Marvel Index to Marvel Team-Up #6. An alternative is that Olshevsky mistakenly attributed the Halloween in X 141-UX 142 (Halloween 1980) to the same Halloween shown in PPSSM 38-40 (Halloween 1979). In a previous discussion, it has been pointed out that M/TU 100 should properly be placed prior to X 139, due to Wolverine's costume, along with the Danger Room's situation, and that there's no Kitty in M/TU 100.

I would recommend the following changes..

BEAST/HENRY "HANK" PHILIP MCCOY
---
A 205
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
A 206
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
DAZZ 17-FB
DD 164
IH@ 11
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE TO HERE
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE TO HERE

M/TIO 75
---

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVE ROGERS
---
A 205
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
A 206
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
FF 220
DD 164
M/FAN 23
CA 251 (1 - 18:2)
CA 252 (5:4)-FB
CA 251 (18:3 - 22)
CA 252
IH@ 11
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE TO HERE
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE TO HERE

CA 253
---

DAZZLER II/ALISON BLAIRE
---
ASM 203
FF 217 <--- MOVE TO HERE
DAZZ 1
DAZZ 2 (1 - 21:1)
DAZZ 17-FB
DAZZ 2 (21:2 - 21:5)
FF 217 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
DAZZ 3
---

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK/"RICHARD FRANCO"
---
A 205
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
A 206 (1 - 9)
A 206-FB
A 206 (10 - 22)
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
FF 220
DD 163
M/FAN 22
M/FAN 23-FB
M/FAN 23
IM 130
---
IM 145
SAVSH 6 (2:2 - 2:3)-FB
SAVSH 6
IIM3 11 (3 - 10)-FB
IH@ 11
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE TO HERE
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE TO HERE

MICRO 28
IH2 262-BTS
M/TIO 75
---

JARVIS, EDWIN
---
A 205
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
A 206
M/FAN 23
IM 137
IH@ 11
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE TO HERE
CA 253
---

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
---
ASM 203
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE FROM HERE

PPSSM 42
FF 218
ASM 204
ASM 205
---
IH@ 11
PPSSM@ 2
PPSSM 52 (1 - 21)
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE TO HERE
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE TO HERE

M/TU 102
PPSSM 53
---

WASP/JANET VAN DYNE PYM
---
A 205
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
A 206
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE FROM HERE
IH@ 11
DAZZ 1 <--- MOVE TO HERE
DAZZ 2 <--- MOVE TO HERE

M/TIO 75
---
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