SECRET INVASION!

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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SECRET INVASION!

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:45 am

Now that Secret Invasion has wrapped up, Tom Brevoort has posted his timeline on his blog:
Tom Brevoort wrote:SECRET INVASION TIMELINE

KREE/SKRULL WAR – AVENGERS #89-97

Illuminati go after Skrulls, Skrulls get Illuminati DNA –ILLUMINATI #1
Veranke sent to barren wasteland – NEW #40
Skrulls begin cloning experiments – NEW #40
Skrulls clone Reed Richards, killed by King Dorrek – NEW #40
Sentry has first Skrull encounter – MIGHTY #14
Skrulls fail with clones of Illuminati – NEW #44
Skrulls get secret of working undetected from clone Reed – NEW #44

GALACTUS EATS SKRULL THRONEWORLD - FF #257

Skrulls come to Veranke – NEW #40
Veranke becomes queen – NEW #40

AVENGERS AND FF BATTLE SKRULLS - AVENGERS ANNUAL #14

Elektra ambushed by Skrulls – MIGHTY #16
Elektra replaced by Skrull – NEW #40 (recounted)

WOLVERINE – ENEMY OF THE STATE – WOLVERINE #20-32

Veranke presented with new model Super-Skrull – NEW #40
Veranke presented with Skrull Elektra – NEW #40
Veranke decides to impersonate Jessica Drew – NEW #40
Nick Fury recruits Jessica Drew as double-agent – NEW #15/NEW #42
HYDRA gives Spider-Woman back her powers – NEW #15
Skrulls replace Jessica Drew with Veranke – NEW #42
Skrulls create Skrull Captain America, put him in pod – NEW #43
Skrulls meet at safehouse (Elektra, Spider-Woman) Veranke gives Elektra her mission – MIGHTY #16

SECRET WAR

Nick tells Jessica Drew that he’s going underground – NEW #14
Nick Fury goes underground – MIGHTY #12
Skrulls meet at safehouse (Spider-Woman, Elektra, Jarvis, Contessa) discuss Vibranium – NEW #42
Contessa says she’s been in place for two days – NEW #42
Skrull Jessica Drew gets posted to the Raft – NEW #42

AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED – AVENGERS #500-503

Elektra Skrull takes over Hand, mentions Avengers are no more – MIGHTY #16
Nick Fury found by Contessa Skrull – MIGHTY #12
Nick Fury kills Contessa Skrull – MIGHTY #12
Nick Fury becomes aware of Skrull conspiracy – MIGHTY #12
Nick Fury warns Maria Hill on Helicarrier – MIGHTY #12
Nick Fury tells Spider-Woman about the Skrulls, not realizing she’s a Skrull – MIGHTY #12
Real Hank lectures at U of Oxford – MIGHTY #15
Real Hank and Jan separate – MIGHTY #15
Skrull Elektra hires Electro for Raft breakout – MIGHTY #16

RAFT BREAKOUT – NEW AVENGERS #1-3

Real Hank and Skrull “Gwen” canoodle, see news of press conference – MIGHTY #15
Hank replaced by Skrull “Gwen” – MIGHTY #15

NEW AVENGERS FORM – NEW AVENGERS #3-4

Skrull Jessica and Skrull Hank discuss the Raft breakout and her joining New Avengers– NEW #42
Ka-Zar and Shanna discover Skrulls among SHIELD in Savage Land, including Contessa – NEW #41 – (This would be the 2nd Contessa Skrull)

NEW AVENGERS IN SAVAGE LAND - NEW AVENGERS #4-6

Skrull Jessica finds out about Wanda’s whereabouts – NEW #42
Skrull Jessica meets with Maria Hill, gets call from Hank to meet at Tower for House of M mission – NEW #42

HOUSE OF M – HOUSE OF M #1-7

Skrull Jessica and Skrull Hank in House of M – NEW #45
Veranke tries to assassinate Wanda in HOM, uncreated by her – NEW #45

M-DAY – HOUSE OF M #8

Veranke recreated along with the regular Marvel U – NEW #45
Skrulls meet at safehouse (Jarvis, Spider-Woman, Elektra, Hank?, Contessa) speak about M-Day and Annihilation Wave – NEW #45

NEW AVENGERS PRESS CONFERENCE – NEW AVENGERS #15

Skrull Jarvis asks for access to Avengers Tower files – MIGHTY #14
Skrulls meet at safehouse (Elektra, Spider-Woman, Jarvis, Contessa) – MIGHTY #14

SKRULL EMPIRE DECIMATED – ANNIHILATION #1-6

CIVIL WAR – CIVIL WAR #1-7

Captain Mar-Vell Skrull escapes, thinks he’s the real Mar-Vell – CIVIL WAR THE RETURN/CAPTAIN MARVEL #1-5

CAPTAIN AMERICA ASSASINATED – CAPTAIN AMERICA #25

Dum Dum Dugan ambushed by Contessa Skrull, replaced by Skrull – SECRET INVASION TEASER
Nick Fury recruits Daisy Johnson – MIGHTY #13
Hank Pym and Dum Dum Dugan meet in Oregon, Hank killed after rebelling – MIGHTY #17
Daisy Johnson takes photos for Fury – MIGHTY #17
New Skrull replaces Hank Skrull – MIGHTY #17

MIGHTY AVENGERS FORMED, BATTLE ULTRON – MIGHTY AVENGERS #1-6

Skrulls meet at safehouse ( Spider-Woman, Hank, Contessa, Jarvis) and work out how to disable Stark Tech – MIGHTY #15
Daisy recruits Ares’ son Phobos – MIGHTY #13
Daisy recruits Yo Yo – MIGHTY #13
Daisy recruits Hellfire – MIGHTY #13
Daisy attempts to recruit Layla Miller, fails – MIGHTY #13
Daisy recruits Druid – MIGHTY #13
Daisy recruits Stonewall – MIGHTY #13

ELEKTRA DISCOVERED AS A SKRULL – NEW AVENGERS #31

SPIDER-WOMAN STEALS ELEKTRA CORPSE – NEW AVENGERS #32

HANK GIVES JAN GROWTH SERUM – MIGHTY AVENGERS #8 (Flashback)

Skrull Hank gives Jan tainted growth formula – MIGHTY #15

SPIDER-WOMAN TAKES CORPSE TO IRON MAN – MIGHTY AVENGERS #7

WORLD WAR HULK

IRON MAN TAKES CORPSE TO ILLUMINATI, BLACK BOLT SKRULL REVEALED – NA ILLUMINATI #5

Nick Fury has the Secret Warriors abduct Maria Hill as a training exercise – MIGHTY #18
The Hood and his crew learn about the Skrull infiltration – NEW #46
Cap Skrull and other 70s Hero Skrulls aboard Pod come to life, escape in pod – NEW #43

SECRET INVASION
I haven't looked terribly closely at this yet, but one thing jumps out at me. I'm confused about his placement of Secret War vs Disassembled. I realize that the destruction of Avengers Mansion is a big deal, but if he's underground and no longer with SHIELD, why would he show up IN CHARGE OF SHIELD when he's no longer in charge of SHIELD? And wasn't Secret War #5 rewritten to take place after Disassembled because of the delays?

In any case, it's totally awesome of Tom Brevoort to even post this stuff at all. YAY, Tom Brevoort!
-Daron Jensen

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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by Somebody » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:29 am

Col_Fury wrote:I haven't looked terribly closely at this yet, but one thing jumps out at me. I'm confused about his placement of Secret War vs Disassembled. I realize that the destruction of Avengers Mansion is a big deal, but if he's underground and no longer with SHIELD, why would he show up IN CHARGE OF SHIELD when he's no longer in charge of SHIELD? And wasn't Secret War #5 rewritten to take place after Disassembled because of the delays?
We've been over this in other threads. Your answers are "Yes it was rewritten as you suggest, but they already claimed the other way around in one of the Saga books" and "No, it doesn't make any sense."

There are various objections, but the biggest is Cap v5 - #1-14 (less the Nomad FB and HoM issues) are predicated on having the real Fury there and in-charge of SHIELD AND being post-Disassembled AND real-Fury-in-exile later refers to the events of #1-14 from the POV that he was there as he appeared to be. You can't write that one off as an LMD.

And the fact that Elektra was DEAD ON A TABLE in Enemy of the State, yet hadn't reverted to Skrull form makes me say that you can't put her replacement before that either.

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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:26 pm

Some parts of Tom's chronology are helpful and do work fine. But Somebody's right -- we've raised a number of objections to the "official" chronology, and nothing has happened since that explains how Brevoort's sequence could ever work in key places. I think it's time we boldly say, "Thanks, Tom, but the MCP is taking this in another direction."

Shall we review some past threads and try building our own recent MU chronology, perhaps drawing in other tie-in events, like Messiah Complex, One More Day, etc.? I was going to return to the Calendar drawing board for a rehaul in a few weeks, and anything started here would help tremendously. Perhaps some kind of working document (chronological event list) that we can compile and edit as a group?
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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by Somebody » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:51 pm

Brevoort wrote:GALACTUS EATS SKRULL THRONEWORLD - FF #257

Skrulls come to Veranke – NEW #40
Veranke becomes queen – NEW #40

AVENGERS AND FF BATTLE SKRULLS - AVENGERS ANNUAL #14

[...]

WOLVERINE – ENEMY OF THE STATE – WOLVERINE #20-32

Veranke presented with new model Super-Skrull – NEW #40
Veranke presented with Skrull Elektra – NEW #40
Veranke decides to impersonate Jessica Drew – NEW #40
Okay, he seems to be reading NA 40 very differently from the way I read it.

He appears to be saying that Veranke became Queen shortly after Galactus ate the Skrull throneworld, and that she was Queen of at least a sect of the skrulls for years thereafter before she decided to replace Jessica Drew. [What's special about A@ 14 anyway, as opposed to the various skrully issues over the years? I don't have it]

Whereas NA 40 doesn't say that. It puts a "Years Later" tag between Galactus eating the Skrull throneworld and Veranke being approached, and then conspicuously fails to repeat that before the scene with the "new model Super-Skrull" and Skrullectra. Her dialogue seems to reinforce this, albeit without explicitly stating so. Is there something, anywhere, that reinforces Brevoort's interpretation of events? Even if it's not outright contradictory, it at least feels like a stretch to me.
Paul Bourcier wrote:Some parts of Tom's chronology are helpful and do work fine. But Somebody's right -- we've raised a number of objections to the "official" chronology, and nothing has happened since that explains how Brevoort's sequence could ever work in key places. I think it's time we boldly say, "Thanks, Tom, but the MCP is taking this in another direction."
Agreed.

Meanwhile, another point - Fury is in-charge of SHIELD in W:EotS, where he's operated on and spends a lot of time of hospital.
Paul Bourcier wrote:Shall we review some past threads and try building our own recent MU chronology, perhaps drawing in other tie-in events, like Messiah Complex, One More Day, etc.? I was going to return to the Calendar drawing board for a rehaul in a few weeks, and anything started here would help tremendously. Perhaps some kind of working document (chronological event list) that we can compile and edit as a group?
Some relevant topics [including MCX-related threads]:
Zemo -- Born Better (last post Nov 2007 - may be archived soon)
Bendis blows continuity...again (last post Nov 2007)
Illumanati 5 (last post Jan 2008)
Endangered Species and other X-placements (last post Nov 2007)
Marvel Calendar -- Latest Edition Now Online (in particular, from page 8 on)
New Avengers Annual #2 -- what the #$%^&!?
Secret Invasion Saga
Secret Invasion [SPOILERS]
Mighty Avengers 12
Mighty Avengers 13
Hank Pym/Skrull in Mighty Avengers #15/New Avengers #42 (important one, still on the front page)
Secret Invasion #1 Director’s Cut
Secret Invasion: Inhumans
Doctor Strange's status quo
Iron Man, Spider-man, Thunderbolts, and Secret Invasion
Nova v4 #13-19

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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:32 am

Somebody wrote:What's special about A@ 14 anyway, as opposed to the various skrully issues over the years? I don't have it
I do! And since I couldn't sleep, I pulled it out and flipped through it.

In New Avengers 43, the creation of the Cap-Skrull is shown, and we see the point at which the Skrulls gave the Cap-Skrull divergent memories. The Cap-Skrull's FlashBacks are to... Avengers Annual #14! Surprise! :) The Cap-Skrull's memories pick up from this issue; She-Hulk in an FF uniform ripping through a wall, Reed & Sue are there, so is the Black Knight, Wasp, Hercules, etc. Even dialogue is lifted: "Looks like we've been led into an ambush.", "Sorry, boys. But an ambush that's expected rarely works!" & some others.
Somebody wrote:Is there something, anywhere, that reinforces Brevoort's interpretation of events?
I'm guessing that he's saying that Veranke must have already been in charge by the time of A@ 14... but I'm not sure why. In New Avengers 43, the telepathic Skrull explains that she only has the memories of Tony Stark & Reed Richards and their archives to give the Cap-Skrull his memories. Maybe Tom is saying that they got Cap's DNA in A@ 14 and that's why the memories pick up from there, but that doesn't come across in the comic. I mean, why would they have to use their archives if the memories are stored in his DNA? Right? :|

Avengers Annual 14 is a rockin' issue, by the way. It's written by Roger Stern, drawn by John Byrne, & finshed by Kyle Baker. It's a joy to behold, lemme tellya.
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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by dimadick » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:10 pm

Somebody wrote:He appears to be saying that Veranke became Queen shortly after Galactus ate the Skrull throneworld, and that she was Queen of at least a sect of the skrulls for years thereafter before she decided to replace Jessica Drew.
The various claimants of the throne following the death of R'Kll and Anelle in the hands of Galactus have already been covered in issues of the 1980s. They were reportedly five rival rulers.

1. Kylor, an "Emperor", appeared in "Silver Surfer" vol. 3 #2 (August, 1987), 4-6 (October-December, 1987) , 8 (February, 1988) and 13 (July, 1988). He was mostly concerned with starting a new Kree-Skrull War. He had his subordinate Nenora infiltate the Kree. Nenora did a wonderful job, even succeeding the Supreme Intelligence as ruler of the Kree. She was supposed to lead the Kree fleet into a trap set by Kylor, ensuring him an easy victory. Instead she chose to keep Kree power for herself and let Kylor and his fleet into a Kree trap, resulting in a Skrull massacre by the victorious Kree.

2. S'Byll, an "Empress", was introduced in "Silver Surfer" vol. 3 #13 (July, 1988) and "Silver Surfer Annual" #1 (1988). She gained a slight advantage by recruiting Super-Skrull to her side. In "Silver Surfer" #25-31 (July - December, 1989), she managed to restore their lost shape-shifting powers to all the Skrulls, deposed Nenora, destabilized the Kree and forced them to sign a truce ending the Kree-Skrull War with Skrull victory and reportedly united the Skrulls into one coherent empire. Not bad for a start. She went on to appear in "Impossible Man Summer Vacation Special" #1 (August, 1990), "Fantastic Four Annual" #24 (1991), "Infinity Gauntlet" #1 (July, 1991) and "Silver Surfer" #105 (June, 1995). She has somehow been ignored ever since.

3. Yorak, an "Emperor", was briefly seen in "Silver Surfer" vol. 3 #6 (December, 1987).

4. A claimant named "Karza" was mentioned but never depicted.

5. A fifth claimant was mentioned but neither named nor depicted.

Wouldn't Veranke rise to the throne after S'Byll was last seen?

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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by cweed4 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:17 am

dimadick wrote:Wouldn't Veranke rise to the throne after S'Byll was last seen?
I think Veranke was queen of a radical sect of skrulls and not the whole empire, as S'Byll apparently was.

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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by Somebody » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:01 am

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/938/938181p1.html

Elektra mini starts in March. Uh-oh...

Plus, Dr Strange's situation is finally followed up in NAv.

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Re: SECRET INVASION!

Post by Somebody » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:37 am

Trying to figure out who was replaced and, more importantly, when. [Bear in mind there are quite a few titles I don't read - in particular, Avengers: The Initiative, and I may have missed some, although I'm trying to focus on characters who have "real" appearances before SI.]

Elektra
Replaced Mighty Avengers #16 (placed between pages of W3 31 since, with Elektra's death & resurrection in that storyline without ever reverting to Skrull, it can't be any earlier. Besides, the MA issue seems to be written as the real Elektra having rejected the Hand at the end of that story, then Skrullectra going to take them over...)

Black Bolt
Replaced Secret Invasion #3-FB (explicitly placed between Silent War and WWH)

Captain Mar-Vell
Technically not replaced, since the ringer presented himself as a time-traveller. First app. Civil War: The Return

Dum Dum Dugan
Replaced Secret Invasion #1: Director's Cut [originally the Secret Invasion online prologue, but that was its' first printing], placed shortly after CA5 25.

Yellowjacket/Hank Pym (multiple Skrulls)
Replaced Mighty Avengers #15 (between New Avengers #3 & #4, per Brevoory)
Replaced again?
Replaced again Mighty Avengers #17 (shortly before Mighty Avengers #3)

Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew (Veranke)
Replaced New Avengers #42 (set shortly after New Avengers #15-FB, set shortly after Giant-Size Spider-Woman, set between Disassembled and New Avengers)

Contessa (multiple skrulls)
Replaced off-panel (after Captain America v5 #14, since Fury can't be gone from SHIELD before then and she apparently arrived after Fury went rogue)
Replaced again off-panel (between Disassembled and New Avengers)
Replaced again after New Avengers #4-6
[Another Contessa Skrull later replaced Dugan]

Longshot (Talisman)
Techically not replaced, merely mimicked. First app. X-Factor #33

Kerberus/Kirby, Amadeus Cho's coyote pup
Replaced Incredible Hercules #119-FB (between pages of Incredible Herc #112)

Unclear when replaced:

Jarvis (between Disassembled and New Avengers?)
Slug
Ahura (before SI:Inhumans. Whether before, during or after Silent War, in particular, is unclear)
Mockingbird (before Avengers West Coast #100)

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