Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

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Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:47 pm

In this week’s X-MEN: LEGACY #219, there are several flashback scenes for Juggernaut.

9:1 – Juggernaut is about to get sucked into the dimension inside the gem of Cyttorak as the original X-Men watch –- this occurs between 19:4 and 19:5 of UX 33.

9:2 – Juggernaut grows old before dying in a place called Oblivion –- my guess is that Cain is here between AAF2 16 and H2 172 –- can someone confirm this?

9:3 – Juggernaut sits on a rock in empty space “for about a year” –- can anyone place this?

9:4 – Juggernaut flounders in cement as Spidey looks on –- this occurs between 18:4 and 18:5 of ASM 230.

10 – Cain deserts a battle and he and Xavier find the temple of Cyttorak –- I think there have been several flashbacks to this Juggernaut origin, but I’m not sure how this new flashback ties in with previous ones.

18/19:1 – Cain sees a TV news report on Xavier’s death – this presumably occurs the same night as X 207

18/19:2 – Juggernaut robs a bank vault as a squad of policemen shoot at him –-placement?

18/19:3 – Cain picks up a couple of women at a club –- placement?

18/19:4 – Juggernaut fights Archangel, Wolverine, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Cyclops, and Emma Frost (all in their current costumes) –- when did this occur?

18/19:5 – Cain fixes his car –- placement?
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Re: Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by JephYork » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:11 pm

18/19:1 – Cain sees a TV news report on Xavier’s death – this presumably occurs the same night as X 207
18/19:2 – Juggernaut robs a bank vault as a squad of policemen shoot at him –-placement?
18/19:3 – Cain picks up a couple of women at a club –- placement?
18/19:4 – Juggernaut fights Archangel, Wolverine, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Cyclops, and Emma Frost (all in their current costumes) –- when did this occur?
18/19:5 – Cain fixes his car –- placement?
These aren't flashbacks -- they all occur *after* Juggy "kills Xavier". They're meant to be depictions of his life once he's crossed that final line and gone full-out villainous -- but, since the entire thing happened in Cain's mindscape, they didn't actually occur.

-Jeph!

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Re: Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:02 am

Jeph wrote:
These aren't flashbacks -- they all occur *after* Juggy "kills Xavier". They're meant to be depictions of his life once he's crossed that final line and gone full-out villainous -- but, since the entire thing happened in Cain's mindscape, they didn't actually occur.
Thanks, Jeph. You can tell this story didn't really engage me. :?
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Re: Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by michel » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:31 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:9:2 – Juggernaut grows old before dying in a place called Oblivion –- my guess is that Cain is here between AAF2 16 and H2 172 –- can someone confirm this?
Don't have received X219 yet to place the FB myself. At the end of AAF2 16, Juggernauts begins to grow old again and returns to the Crimson Cosmos to die, then in H2 172-FB, the consciousness of the Crimson Cosmos offers him to restore his youth and to return him to Earth in exchange for his mystic powers.
9:3 – Juggernaut sits on a rock in empty space “for about a year” –- can anyone place this?
It could be when he was emprisoned inside the Cyttorak Gem by Onslaught, in a dimension which looked like a rocky and volcanish landscape, that would be in-between X54 and XU12, but the year reference makes me hesitate, maybe time flows quicker in the dimension within the Cyttorak Gem as it dit in the Crimson Cosmos

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Re: Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:23 am

Michel wrote:
Don't have received X219 yet to place the FB myself. At the end of AAF2 16, Juggernauts begins to grow old again and returns to the Crimson Cosmos to die, then in H2 172-FB, the consciousness of the Crimson Cosmos offers him to restore his youth and to return him to Earth in exchange for his mystic powers.
Based on your description, Michel, it looks like X 219-FB (9:2) does indeed go between AAF2 16 and H2 172-FB. Thanks.

Michel wrote:
It could be when he was emprisoned inside the Cyttorak Gem by Onslaught, in a dimension which looked like a rocky and volcanish landscape, that would be in-between X54 and XU12, but the year reference makes me hesitate, maybe time flows quicker in the dimension within the Cyttorak Gem as it dit in the Crimson Cosmos
Perhaps, but you're right, the time reference is off. I was under the impression that Juggy was freed from the Cyttorak gem dimension in X-MEN UNLIMTED #12 later the same day as he was imprisoned in it in ONSLAUGHT: X-MEN #1. Maybe a year of his life did pass in that brief time.
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Re: Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by michel » Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:31 am

I've found two better possible places, but how large is the rock in X219 ?

In Thor #412, Mid-December 1989, Thor exiles Juggernaut on a large and deserted asteroid in an alternate dimension. We learn later in Thor #429, February 1991, that he got picked up by a passing ship. At the end of Thor #429, Thor exiles him again in the same dimension, but on a much smaller asteroid. Then Black Tom returns the Juggernaut on Earth in X-Force #2, September 1991.

The diameter of the first asteroid is several kilometers, for the second one it's just a couple of meters. I still don't have received X219 to tell which fits better. The time reference seems a bit long for the second banishment, for the first one, we don't know exactly how much time the Juggernaut has passed before he was rescued.

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Re: Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by Enda80 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:09 pm

"In Thor #412, Mid-December 1989, Thor exiles Juggernaut on a large and deserted asteroid in an alternate dimension. We learn later in Thor #429, February 1991, that he got picked up by a passing ship. At the end of Thor #429, Thor exiles him again in the same dimension, but on a much smaller asteroid. Then Black Tom returns the Juggernaut on Earth in X-Force #2, September 1991."

Hey, that reminds me. In Avengers West Coast#64, remember that one-panel fb to a still untold adventure involving the Hulk and a young boy named Stevie? Explicitly placed after Nova (the late lamented "woman in a refrigerator" Nick Carter's spouse phenomenon victim, not Richard Rider) visited Earth in Excalibur I#25, which came out roughly in 1990.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/cyttor.htm#stevie

Has anyone tried to fit that in?

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Re: Juggernaut flashbacks in X 219

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:07 pm

Michel, thanks for pointing out some viable placements. The rock on which Juggernaut sits in X 219-FB (9:3) is quite small and I think the flashback fits nicely between T 429 and XFOR 2.
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