Marvels: Eye of the Camera #2

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Paul Bourcier
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Marvels: Eye of the Camera #2

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:20 pm

I’m trying to pin down the many references given in this week’s MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA #2 in order to place various scenes in this comic in their proper chronological places. Here’s what I have:

It appears that the first 11 pages of M/EOTC 2 occur during one day, the same day as the end of M/EOTC 1.

M/EOTC 2 (9:3) shows a still from footage released by SHIELD, as shown on a TV news program broadcast in a bar. It shows Cap, the Falcon, Professor X, Cyclops, and Marvel Girl fighting Nick Fury and agents of SHIELD. This still occurs between pages 3 and 4 of CA 173 and should be added to the chronologies of these six characters (Dum Dum doesn’t appear in the still). The footage appears to show a scene that just happened, confirmed by the news statement, “Captain America, currently a fugitive charged with murder, has been the target of public criticism recently” and the response of a Cap fan, “The man’s innocent. I got a knuckle sandwich for anyone says different.” Clearly, we’re supposed to be in the midst of the Secret Empire saga that ran from CA 169 through CA 175.

According to the Indexes, Cap appears in A 125 after CA 175, and M/TU 20 occurs after A 126, so M/TU 20 occurs some time after that footage seen in M/EOTC 2 (9:3). The problem with this is that, in the same bar scene, moments before the TV broadcast, a guy says “...and there’s dinosaurs – real dinosaurs – stampeding down Broadway, until the Black Panther and Spider-Man stop ‘em. I want to hear that excuse, ‘Sorry I’m late, honey, but the dodge got stepped on by a triceratops...’” This places the bar scene on the night of M/TU 20. So by this time, the Secret Empire saga was finished and was Cap was back with the Avengers, having fought with them in A 125 and having just appeared in A 126 and GSA 1. We could say that SHIELD took its time releasing the footage, but what’s with the news commentary and the comment by the Cap fan? Ugh! If this can’t be explained (see below), we’d have to move the Secret Empire saga from late November/early December to be isochronous with the post-Christmas setting of M/TU 20. This would require moving a whole bunch of interrelated issues (CA 169-175, A 120-126, GSA 1, AFOREVER 1-12, CM 30-35, and IM 68-71) to a later point on the calendar. This in turn would mean that M/TU 20 would occur before A 125-126, and that makes no sense in regard to T’Challa’s chronology. He leaves the Avengers in A 126 and is preparing to return to Wakanda in M/TU 20.

BTW, Phil Sheldon’s narrative in the bar scene notes that “the Avengers had taken down some lunatics calling themselves Zodiac.” This is a reference to A 123, which did occur the day before that footage from the CA 173 battle was taken.

Phil notes Gwen Stacy’s death (ASM 122) and Spidey’s dune-buggy (ASM 130-131); this is fine, as ASM 130-131 ends on the Christmas eve just before M/TU 20.

Phil notes in the narrative that Iron Man is back in Detroit again – reference? (Of course, he’s supposedly still involved with A 123-124 at this point, unless the bar scene really does occur after M/TU 20, in which case Iron Man had just appeared in A 126 and GSA 1 and would appear next in A 280-FB sometime during the winter.)

Phil notes that the Hulk busted up an Army base, presumably earlier that day. I think this scene occurs sometime between H 174 and 175 and that the base busting might be an unpublished event.

Phil notes that “the world was invaded by demons” – reference?

He also notes that “the Sub-Mariner was sighted at E.S.U.” – reference? I think this bar scene occurs between Namor’s appearances in DEF 14 and FF 147.

Phil and another bar patron note that “there’s vampires in England” – reference?

A guy at the bar notes, “So the sergeant tells me they use this thing, send the Hulk to another dimension, and it works. Onlyb trouble is when the Hulk fades out, the Juggernaut fades in. So they do it again, and now the Hulk’s back too.” This is a reference to H 172, which I believe occurs a few months earlier, in September.

Another guy at the bar notes “we’ve got werewolves in London now” – reference?

Still another guy adds, “and a hundred-foot tall stone guy playing King Kong on the Capitol building” – reference?

Still another notes, “Don’t forget the zombies. That swamp-monster [Man-Thing] in Florida.”

In a Daily Bugle scene that presumably occurs earlier the day of the bar scene, the Human Torch is noted as getting a traffic ticket upstate. I don’t think this is a reference to a published story, and I would place Johnny in this situation between ASM 130 and FF 145 (not an actual appearance, though).

Also in that Bugle scene, “Nelson,” presumably Foggy, is noted as having been shot – reference?

Pages 12-14 of M/EOTC occur on another day, perhaps the day after the first 11 pages. In this segment, M/EOTC 2 (12:2) shows TV news footage of New York City police and city workers capture a giant white rabbit in Greenwich Village the night before – reference?

After page 14, unspecified time passes...

M/EOTC 2 (15:1) shows a generic shot of Thor flying over Manhattan, which I would probably put between A 280-FB and CA 176.

M/EOTC 2 (15:2) illustrates Phil’s narrative of “madmen in New York, flooding the city with counterfeit money, trying to destabilize the country.” This panel, showing Daredevil, occurs sometime during DD 109, but I don’t have that issue, so I don’t know if the panel is new material and where it falls within DD 109. I suspect it’s after the lengthy gap in this issue, but I believe that would place the panel during the June after the late December bar scene. (This panel might occur out of sequence with other panels.) Considering that Phil Sheldon was given “six months” to live on the day of the bar scene and that he doesn’t approve the chemo treatments until after this panel, that could be problematic.

M/EOTC 2 (15:3) shows Son of Satan fighting demons on the St. Louis Arch – reference?

M/EOTC 2 (15:4) features a TV reporter noting “an all-out battle between the Human Torch, the thing, and Prince Namor of Atlantis in western Pennsylvania today. Could it have anything to do with divorce papers filed yesterday by the Invisible Girl?” This panel must occur the night of FF 147, which occurs during the April following the late December bar scene; if the calendar placement sticks, Phil’s taking his time deciding on that chemo. I’m not sure if the video still in this panel shows anything new or where it would go within FF 147.

M/EOTC 2 (16-22) features a party celebrating Peter Parker getting nominated for Photographer of the Year. Is this totally new material? If it occurs the same night as 15:4, then I would place Peter here between M/TU 22 and GSSM 1. After scanning plot synopses from the ASM and M/TU Indexes, this nomination appears to be a non-sequitur. The Punisher is seen running across a roof; I think he’s here between the pre-Christmas setting of ASM 129 and the “spring” setting of ASM 134. M.J. and Joe Robertson appear here as well. And, there are anti-Cap posters pinned up on walls; they read “Captain America Defends – Who? What Do You Really Know About Him?” So, some people are STILL thinking badly about Cap months after the Secret Empire saga?

Getting back to that whole Cap problem...

The Index has established that FF 147-149 occurs before M/TIO 4-5, which in turn occurs before CA 176, the issue in which Steve Rogers gives up his Cap identity. So Cap gave up being Cap months after the Secret Empire saga. Could it be that the anti-Cap feelings stirred up during the Secret Empire saga remained for months, that the footage seen in the bar was released weeks after the saga concluded because Cap detractors finally forced SHIELD to release it, and that the months-long crusade against Cap was a key factor in the self-doubt and disillusion that finally forced him to renounce his Cap ID in CA 176? I re-read CA 176, and one could read this scenario into the dialog. I vote for this explanation, as it avoids a disruption of established chronologies.

I’d appreciate any further light folks can shed on this issue.
Paul B.

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Re: Marvels: Eye of the Camera #2

Post by newtron » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:45 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:M/EOTC 2 (16-22) features a party celebrating Peter Parker getting nominated for Photographer of the Year. Is this totally new material? If it occurs the same night as 15:4, then I would place Peter here between M/TU 22 and GSSM 1. After scanning plot synopses from the ASM and M/TU Indexes, this nomination appears to be a non-sequitur. The Punisher is seen running across a roof; I think he’s here between the pre-Christmas setting of ASM 129 and the “spring” setting of ASM 134. M.J. and Joe Robertson appear here as well. And, there are anti-Cap posters pinned up on walls; they read “Captain America Defends – Who? What Do You Really Know About Him?” So, some people are STILL thinking badly about Cap months after the Secret Empire saga?
Pete gets nominated for Photographer of the Year in Giant-Size Super-Heroes #1.
the spider-man project: http://spiderman.whiskeyclone.net

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Re: Marvels: Eye of the Camera #2

Post by Enda80 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:10 am

I’m trying to pin down the many references given in this week’s MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA #2 in order to place various scenes in this comic in their proper chronological places. Here’s what I have:

Phil notes that “the world was invaded by demons” – reference?
-- a Doctor Strange or Defenders story? one of those Rutland, VT stories?
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/rutlandvt.htm

Phil and another bar patron note that “there’s vampires in England” – reference?
---Two possible stories could serve as references; actual several, now that I think of of it. Numerous Dracula and Blade stories (such as Marvel Preview#3, the intro of Dai Thomas), the Sheila Whittier story; the death of Edith Harker; also Captain America I#253 notes that during a point in which Dracula traveled to England, he had his underling Cromwell liberate Baron Blood's body from the Tower of London; this event took place long before the main action of Captain America I#253

Another guy at the bar notes “we’ve got werewolves in London now” – reference?
---just a smug reference to the Warren Zevon song? Yes, it got released in 1978 but due to the sliding timescale, most stories published after 1961 would now take place after it (or perhaps a reference to the 1935 film Werewolf of London with Henry Hull?)

Still another guy adds, “and a hundred-foot tall stone guy playing King Kong on the Capitol building” – reference?
---It, the Living Colossus?

Still another notes, “Don’t forget the zombies. That swamp-monster [Man-Thing] in Florida.”
---Simon Garth?

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