Pharoah Rama-Tut in Motormouth and FF@ 27?

[JephYork]

The MCP has Pharoah Rama-Tut listed as appearing in Motormouth #2-3 & 5-6, and FF Annual 27. I'm not seeing him there ... is he in disguise?

-Jeph!

[Russ Chappell]

Interesting...

The Master List has him appearing in FF@ 27, also. I know I didn't get it from Jeff, and he says he doesn't use other sites, either, so...

I wonder if I got it from an index. What does the most recent Avengers Index have for Avengers Annual 2 and Giant-Size Avengers 2?


watching: dark shadows

[JephYork]

Bingo. Avengers Index vol. 2 #3's entry for Giant-Size Avengers #2 says:

Guest Star: Pharoah Rama-Tut (in between Avengers #129 and #131; also in flashback following Fantastic Four Annual #27 and preceding Avengers #129; in West Coast Avengers Vol. 2 #20 between pages of flashback)

Guess it's an error on the part of the Index, then?

Still curious about Motormouth, though...

-Jeph!

[Col_Fury]

According to Dhall's analysis:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3135

Killpower: the Early Years 1 & 2 are supposed to be where Motormouth is currently in Rama-Tut's listing.

[Somebody]

Curses! Fury beat me to it while I was searching!

I do want to add that the rogue Motormouth entries appear to have come from the next item on DHall's list - PIERCE, ALEXANDER GOODWIN - whose entry DOESN'T currently include those issues.

[Col_Fury]

Mystery solved!

[JephYork]

Thanks! Amazing detective work!

-Jeph!

[Russ Chappell]

We may not have solved this yet.

Did the Index simply throw in an incorrect book that doesn't belong there, or is it a typographical error, where Rama-Tut appears in some other Fantastic Four Annual? or issue 27 of someone else's annual?

[JephYork]

Well, he is in FF Annual #25, in the 1st and 5th story, both times as Kang...

-Jeph!

[Russ Chappell]

*hunh*

Odd. Oh well. I'll remove it tonight.

Thanks for catching it. Good work, guys.

[Col_Fury]

Hold on, I just flipped through FF Annual 27 and the Invisible Woman is in the TVA offices and asks Kang if Mr. Fantastic is still alive. He doesn't answer, because he's bored.

So no, I'm not seeing Rama-Tut, but I am seeing Kang. In FF@ 27.

Another bit:

Guest Star: Pharoah Rama-Tut (in between Avengers #129 and #131; also in flashback following Fantastic Four Annual #27 and preceding Avengers #129; in West Coast Avengers Vol. 2 #20 between pages of flashback)

This seems to have been split up between Kang & Rama-Tut:

PHAROAH RAMA-TUT
...
From SCARLET CENTURION
A 8 (8:1)-FB
C2 21-BTS |cf C2 57|
C2 32-VO |cf C2 57|
C2 57
A 8 (8:2 - 8:4)-FB
See KANG
From KANG
GSA 2-FB
A@ 2-FB
FF@ 27
GSA 2-FB
WCA 20
GSA 2-FB
See SCARLET CENTURION
...

KANG
...
A:TO 4
AVF 9-FB
A 129 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
GSA 2 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
A 131 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
A 132 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
GSA 3 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
T 282-FB (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
AVF 9-FB
CA3 1
...

And of course, Kang has a note saying he's posing as Rama-Tut in those Avengers issues.

One thing I'm confused about.

Rama-Tut has appearances, then directs to Scarlet Centurion.
Scarlet Centurion has appearances and redirects back to Rama-Tut.
Rama-Tut has more appearances, then redirects to Kang.
Kang has appearances, some where he's posing as Rama-Tut, but there's no redirect back to Rama-Tut.
Rama-Tut has more appearances, then redirects back to Scarlet Centurion, but there's no redirect back, that listing has already ended.
Kang eventually redirects to Immortus, where the listing ends.

So what's going on between Rama-Tut, Scarlet Centurion & Kang? Without reading through all of these comics, it looks like Rama-Tut's last batch of appearances:

From KANG
GSA 2-FB
A@ 2-FB
FF@ 27
GSA 2-FB
WCA 20
GSA 2-FB
See SCARLET CENTURION

should be removed from Rama-Tut and folded into Kang, with a note saying he's posing as Rama-Tut.

Does this work:

PHARAOH RAMA-TUT
...
AVF 9 (5:1)-FB
**MMOUTH 2 (delete)
**MMOUTH 3 (delete)
**MMOUTH 5 (delete)
**MMKP 6 (delete)
*KEY 1 (add)
*KEY 2 (add)
ROA 1
...
See SCARLET CENTURION
*
SCARLET CENTURION
From Pharaoh Rama-tut
...
See Pharaoh Rama-tut
*
PHARAOH RAMA-TUT
From SCARLET CENTURION
...
See KANG
*
KANG THE CONQUEROR
From Pharaoh Rama-tut
...
A:TO 4
*FF@ 27 (before posing as Rama-Tut)
AVF 9-FB
**GSA 2-FB (delete?, not accounted for by Avengers Index, seems to be extra)
**A@ 2-FB (delete, already in Scarlet Centurion's chronology)
*GSA 2-FB (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
*WCA 20 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
*GSA 2-FB (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
A 129 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
GSA 2 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
A 131 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
A 132 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
GSA 3 (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
T 282-FB (as Pharaoh Rama-Tut)
AVF 9-FB
...
See Immortus
*
IMMORTUS
From Kang the Conqueror
...

The deleted A@ 2-FB is where Rama-Tut becomes Scarlet Centurion, narrated by Uatu. FF@ 27 should probably go before AVF 9-FB, as he hasn't started posing as Rama-Tut yet. The Avengers Index would still be correct here, as AVF hadn't been published yet.

[Somebody]

I'm confused as to the difference between Kang "posing as Rama-Tut" and him simply appearing as Rama-Tut, given that we're talking about the same guy either way.

Also, Immortus and Kang were apparently split at the end of AVF at the point where Kang would have become Immortus (even if it wasn't particularly well-executed), and the Kang that appears in the Kang War/Kang Dynasty and Young Avengers (referring to the adult Kang in the latter case, who was stabbed by his younger self) is from after that split. That should be reflected in the listings for both.

[Col_Fury]

I see the changes have been made for Kang & Rama-Tut, but not for Alexander Pierce:

PIERCE, ALEXANDER GOODWIN
…
NF3 43
**MM 2
**MM 3
**MM 5
**MMKP 6
DLOK2 19
…