Wolverine Vol.2 19

[Michael]

I was looking over Wolverine's chronology to try and figure out which "death" of Sabretooth's was referred to in X-Men 251 and I noticed something strange about Wolverine Vol.2 # 19.
Look at the Kingpin's chronology:
Kingpin
CA 365
PWJ 12
PWJ 13
W2 19

Now look at Wolverine's chronology:
Wolverine
W2 19
W2 20
W2 21
W2 22
W2 23
CA363

See the problem? In the Kingpin's chronology, Wolverine Vol.2 #19 took place AFTER Captain America 365, while in Wolverine's chronology it took place BEFORE Captain America 363. How is that possible? And no, Captain America 365 could not have taken place before Captain America 363, since the Red Skrull gets mad at Crossbones in issue 365 for something he did in issue 363.

[frogcoin]

it happens i have been working recently in Acts of vengeance because of W2 19 these days so i have been checking a little bit and W2 19 must be after CA 365, the reason is that in W2 19 we see kingping together with Doom, Magneto and Red Skull working in their "acts of vengeance", in CA 365 we see Loki offering redskull membership in their supervillain club for AoV, at the end of the same issue redskull accepts and goes to the meeting room where we can see Doom, kingpin, wizard and loki together, so in order to W2 19 to happens CA 365 must be first.

regarding placement of CA 363 dunno exactly yet where in wolverine chronology to place it, i checked CA 363 and the only thing we see is an image of wolverine in madripoor wearing his hat and jacket without a patch in a dark street smoking and he doesnt even say a line so it a little bit more easy because we have an still image in civil clothes in madripoor, theres a lot of M/CP between W2 16 and W217 that i havent read and its a big gap so i cant suggest much info about placement.

[Michael]

I just realized what the problem is with Wolverine Vol.2 #19. It ties into the problems we're having with Atlantis Attacks.

Like you've said, Wolverine Vol.2 #19 has to take place has to take place after Captain America 365. Now Captain America 365 has to take place after Atlantis Attacks, since WCA 53 takes place after Atlantis Attacks and Hank and Jan don't know that Hydrobase has been destroyed yet. (Cap 365 ends with a cliffhanger, where Namor is comatose. In Cap 366, Cap takes Namor to the subbasement of the former Avengers Mansion, where Hank works on him. So Hank's appearance in Cap 366 has to take place after WCA 53- otherwise Hank would know that Hydrobase had been destroyed in WCA 53.)

Now, here's where it gets tricky: New Mutants Annual 5, part 9 of Atlantis Attacks, has to take place during New Mutants 87, since it takes place after the Asgardian Wars. But in New Mutants 86, there's a reference to Destiny's death in Uncanny X-Men 255. But Wolverine Vol.2 #19-23 lead into Uncanny X-Men 251!

Also, in Uncanny X-Men 253, Moira wonders where Rahne and the other New Mutants are, which would seem to suggest this takes place while they're in Asgard, or before Moira had a chance to find out they're back.So Wolverine Vol.2 #19-23 have to take place both before and after Atlantis Attacks ends???

[frogcoin]

i understand your corncern regarding this event, i found this also a few weeks ago, you have posted many related topics about referenced and related issues so ill only answer here; i see fom he archives that a lot of people ave been having trouble finding a good placement for all the events in atlantis attacks and acts of vengeance, first of all we must have clear that atlantis attacks must be before acts of vengeance, now, following the order how is supposed to be should be:

1.- new mutants return from asgard and get involved in atlantis attacks
2.- adult storm is captured to serve as a bride of set
3.- Avengers hydrobase is floating in AA
4.- FF, Avengers, Spiderman, jean, scarlet witch and beast get involved in AA
5.- after AA we have Acts of vengeance and all tie-ins.

all his creates a complex escenario at least for the X-mutants series that is what i have been working on almost all my time, dunno about the other heroes series. Looking at the archives and the discussions from december about AA i have been working lately about a new theory for the placements of the major issues of all this.

XF 40
NM 76
UX 244
XF 41
NM 77
XF 42
UX@ 13/2
UX 245 Storm is still an adult
UX@ 13
NM 78-86 new mutants go to asgard
XF 43-50 Judgement war, XF is returning to earth
NM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9
NM 87 page 31
XF 51 page 8-end
NM 88 page 1-14
XF@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 10
WOSM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 11
AWC@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter12
T@ 14 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 13
FF@ 22 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 14 (Storm is still an adult here and appears as one of the Brides of Set alongside Marvel Girl in these issues.)

Up to here so far so good now we start with the Acts of Vengeance chronology and we see that NM has AoV with rusty, skids and vulture; while in XF we have a apocalypse being offered a membership for the supervillain team; still those two stories doesnt have any relative conection to the main events happening in the moments in NM and XF so the suggestion made at some time was move those two events forward so they will fit in the normal chronology.

New Mutants in Atlantis Attacks and Acts of Vengeance
Posted by Andy Holcombe on October 15, 2001 at 02:40:19:

I've been having problems getting Atlantis Attacks and Acts of
Vengeance to work with each other in regards to the chronologies
of all of the players.

The major problem was the New Mutants. The return of the New Mutants
from Asgard in New Mutants #87 leads into New Mutants Annual #5 which
is in the middle of Atlantis Attacks. Running concurrently is the
storyline in which Rusty Collins and Skids Belvins are fighting
Freedom Force, the Vulture, Freedom Force, and getting kidnapped by
the Mutant Liberation Force. The Fight with the Vulture is part of
Loki's Acts of Vengeance (it's on his or one of his minions that the
Tinkerer rebuild's the Vulture's wings). Having Atlantis Attacks
running simultaneously with the Acts of Vengeance caused all sorts
of problems with the Avengers (meeting in a sunken Hydrobase in
Avengers West Coast Annual #4) and Spider-Man (not using his Captain
Universe powers against the Atlanteans in Web of Spider-Man Annual
#5). I finally hit on the idea that the New Mutants storylines
where not running concurrently as they were presented. Rather
the New Mutants returned from Asgard and fought the Atlanteans as
we were shown. After the Acts of Vengeance are going on (and Destiny
and Stonewall are killed by the Reavers), the Rusty and Skids story
picks up in New Mutants #83-87. This chronology also works with
the idea that Incredible Hulk #368 was Freedom Force's first real
mission after Muir Island.

This reasoning can also be used with the Loki/Apocalypse meeting in
X-Factor #49 and 50/2.

This does move X-Factor Annual #4 to someplace after Ship's landing
in X-Factor #51. Ship has not returned to Earth until after New
Mutants Annual #5.

i know theres a lot more of questions regarding the matter but im still working finding the correct arrangement to these +50 comics, regarding the other posts:

1.- yes A 311 must be before CA 365
2.- yes AWC 53 must be before CA 366
2.1- with the proposed arrangement XF49, XF 50 and XF 51 apocalypse appearances can be placed in AoV after FF 335 and (still checking) before of W:JA

to think i read all the AoV arc only to find the placement of W2 19

[metaldragon]

XF 40
NM 76
UX 244
XF 41
NM 77
XF 42
UX@ 13/2
UX 245 Storm is still an adult
UX@ 13
NM 78-86 new mutants go to asgard
XF 43-50 Judgement war, XF is returning to earth
NM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9
NM 87 page 31
XF 51 page 8-end
NM 88 page 1-14
XF@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 10
WOSM@ 5 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 11
AWC@ 4 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 12
T@ 14 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 13
FF@ 22 Atlantis Attacks: Chapter 14 (Storm is still an adult here and appears as one of the Brides of Set alongside Marvel Girl in these issues.)

UX@ 13 (Atlantis Attacks Chapter 3) must take place before NM 76 (where the New Mutants find Namor's old monster summoning horn) because in NM@ 5 (Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9) Ghaur says the events of A@ 18 (Atlantis Attacks Chapter 8) takes place right before NM 76.