Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

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Michael
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Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by Michael » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:48 am

I just realized something during the Wolverine Vol. 2 #19 discussion- Jean Grey's appearances in Atlantis Attacks cannot take place anywhere in continuity.

New Mutants Annual 5, part 9 of Atlantis Attacks, has to take place during New Mutants 87. That means that Jean's appearances in Atlantis Attacks have to take place after she returns to Earth in X-Factor 51.

The problem is, in X-Factor 49, Apocalypse refers to Magneto's alliance with the Red Skull. The Skull joins Loki's group in Captain America 365. Now, Captain America 365 has to take place after Atlantis Attacks ends. WCA 53 takes place after the end of Atlantis Attacks, and in it, Hank Pym has not yet heard of the destruction of Hydrobase. Now in Cap 365, Namor is rendered comatose due to the Controller, and in Cap 366 Hank works on Namor in the subbasement the Avengers were staying in after the destruction of Hydrobase.

So, Hank's appearance in Cap 366 has to take place after his appearance in WCA 53. So, X-Factor 49 takes place after Atlantis Attacks ends but X-Factor 51 takes before Atlantis Attacks ends??? *brickwall*

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by JephYork » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:05 pm

Since "unhooking" is all the rage these days...

AFAIK, the Apocalypse bits can be "unhooked" fairly easily. Heck, it's just a 1-page "meanwhile" cameo in #49, and then an actual separate story in #50 (with different credits and everything). I don't see a problem with XFAC #50/2 occurring after XFAC #51.

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by Michael » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:00 pm

I thought of that too but it doesn't work. Caliban appears in X-Factor 50, and it clearly takes place prior to his appearance in X-Factor 51, where he and Apocalypse watch X-Factor return to Earth.

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by JephYork » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:19 pm

Why is it "clearly"?

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by Michael » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:29 pm

Because the X-Factor 50 story has Apocalypse saying that Caliban's mission on Earth must start soon and X-Factor 51 story has Apocalypse deciding that Caliban must leave him and go off on his own and Caliban leaving.

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by JephYork » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:38 pm

Gotcha. Wow, this whole year is a continuity minefield, huh?

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by Michael » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:51 pm

Blame New Mutants Annual 5. If you ignore it, most of the other continuity can be squeezed in.

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by JephYork » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:20 pm

That's a distinct option. When everything else works except for one piece, it'd seem logical to target that piece...

I wish I knew more about this era off the top of my head. I'd have to do more research...

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by metaldragon » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:50 pm

Michael wrote:Blame New Mutants Annual 5. If you ignore it, most of the other continuity can be squeezed in.
True. If NM@ 5 didn't have this specific dialogue on page 6-7:

Cannonball: "Sure is great to be back on Earth again... even if we can't find our ship!"
Sunspot: "It used to hover around here... didn't it, Warlock?"
Warlock: "Indeed, FriendBobby, but self registers no sign of it, now, at all!"
(They land in the ocean.)
Sunspot: "I hate to be the one to say it, guys, but what if the Ship... and X-Factor on it... are still away in space...? What if they never return?"
Boom Boom: "Shut up, Bobby! They have to return. We have so much to... to tell them. About Dani and Asgard... and Rusty and Skids...! X-Factor can't be--"

That means this story takes place in NM 87 between pages 27 (when they arrive on Earth above the ocean near the Statue of Liberty) & 31 (where they spot Ship returning from space).

Clearly there is no other spot it can go. In the Atlantis Attacks overarching storyline it's "Chapter 9" which takes place right before XF@ 4 which is "Chapter 10" where Marvel Girl is kidnapped by Ghaur which then leads into the concluding Annuals where she appears alongside Storm and the other Brides.

There is further discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3979&p=26191&hilit= ... cks#p26191

and in the Archives.
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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by frogcoin » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:51 pm

well i have been taking my time to reorganize XF-51 as i suggested in other post and it would look more or less this way:

Pag 8-11 XF members and ship arrives to earth after they were in judgment war
pag 18-20 XF ship lands on earth
pag 25-27 XF talk to the press, archangel cuts some cameras and mics and fly away, sabretooth watch him flying away

pag 1-6 apocalypse and caliban watch sabretooth slain chicken wings, mole escapes
pag 13-17 mole hides, meets opal, apocalypse notices ship become sentient, caliban tries the hardest training course
pag 22-24 mole recives food from opal and stays hidden below the staircases
pag 29-30 apocalypse talks about archancel as his masterpiece. try to prevent calibans escape, unknown to caliban it was apocalypse desire that caliban take the initiative to go to new york

so his way we can place apocalypse story forward together with his latest appearances in the order
XF 49
XF 50
XF 51

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by metaldragon » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:49 pm

frogcoin wrote:well i have been taking my time to reorganize XF-51 as i suggested in other post and it would look more or less this way:

Pag 8-11 XF members and ship arrives to earth after they were in judgment war
pag 18-20 XF ship lands on earth
pag 25-27 XF talk to the press, archangel cuts some cameras and mics and fly away, sabretooth watch him flying away

pag 1-6 apocalypse and caliban watch sabretooth slain chicken wings, mole escapes
pag 13-17 mole hides, meets opal, apocalypse notices ship become sentient, caliban tries the hardest training course
pag 22-24 mole recives food from opal and stays hidden below the staircases
pag 29-30 apocalypse talks about archancel as his masterpiece. try to prevent calibans escape, unknown to caliban it was apocalypse desire that caliban take the initiative to go to new york

so his way we can place apocalypse story forward together with his latest appearances in the order
XF 49
XF 50
XF 51
Actually, only the Apocalypse & Caliban bits can be separated from the rest of the story and explained as Apocalypse showing a recording of what happened in Manhattan a little while ago to test Caliban's reactions. The Sabretooth/Mole/Opal sections are at the same time as the X-Factor bits because Opal comments on the earth shaking and shadow cast by Ship's landing on page 13. So it should be just:

XF 51 page 3 panels 5-7, page 4, pages 14-15, pages 29-30.

Everything else would be a "flashback" from their perspective.

XF 51 leads directly into NM 88 with Archangel flying off (XF 51 page 27) on page 8.
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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by frogcoin » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:38 pm

because Opal comments on the earth shaking and shadow cast by Ship's landing on page 13.
youre right about ship landing but ship also could be "flying off and landing again" and opal commenting about it any other time, similar argument was assumed in Spotlight on Starjammers; at the end you know thats what ships do :wink:
XF 51 leads directly into NM 88 with Archangel flying off (XF 51 page 27) on page 8.
i have been working in the "big picture" (namely atlantis attacks, acts of vengeance, etc) and in order to fit everything together i also split all the rusty and skids story in NM 83-87 and move it forward in time. In XF 51 we see archangel flying off and XF talking with the press, we see almost the same scene but from a different angle in NM 88, cant we asume that archangel doesnt like to be in front of the cameras and XF as a publig figure must do conferences often so we take these as 2 different events only that last time NM meets with XF?

i will try to explain my order of events

NM 87
NM@ 5
XF 51
XF@ 4/3
Atlantis Attacks
Acts of Vengeance
XF 49/2; XF 50/2; XF 51/2 Apocalypse gets a membership for Acts of Vengeance
NM 83/2; NM 84/2; NM 85/2; NM 86/2; NM 87/2 Rusty and Skids AoV
NM 88

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by metaldragon » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:52 pm

frogcoin wrote:
because Opal comments on the earth shaking and shadow cast by Ship's landing on page 13.
youre right about ship landing but ship also could be "flying off and landing again" and opal commenting about it any other time, similar argument was assumed in Spotlight on Starjammers; at the end you know thats what ships do :wink:
XF 51 leads directly into NM 88 with Archangel flying off (XF 51 page 27) on page 8.
i have been working in the "big picture" (namely atlantis attacks, acts of vengeance, etc) and in order to fit everything together i also split all the rusty and skids story in NM 83-87 and move it forward in time. In XF 51 we see archangel flying off and XF talking with the press, we see almost the same scene but from a different angle in NM 88, cant we asume that archangel doesnt like to be in front of the cameras and XF as a publig figure must do conferences often so we take these as 2 different events only that last time NM meets with XF?

i will try to explain my order of events

NM 87
NM@ 5
XF 51
XF@ 4/3
Atlantis Attacks
Acts of Vengeance
XF 49/2; XF 50/2; XF 51/2 Apocalypse gets a membership for Acts of Vengeance
NM 83/2; NM 84/2; NM 85/2; NM 86/2; NM 87/2 Rusty and Skids AoV
NM 88
Erm... XF@ 4/3 takes place right before XF 40. It takes place right after Inferno and X-Factor are getting ready to go to Madelyn's funeral (in XF 40) in that story.

NM 88 page 7-9 has the New Mutants witness Archangel flying away from the reporters and reuniting with X-Factor where they explain that Dani stayed in Asgard and they were just in Atlantis and if Rusty & Skids contacted X-Factor. I believe this is where the gap happens. On page 13 (of NM 88) X-Factor reviews a "tape" of the newscast of Rusty getting beaten up by Blob. This is the infamous moment in NM 86 page 29 where Crimson Commando tells the press that Destiny and Stonewall have just died. Everything including Atlantis Attacks Chapters 10-14 and Acts of Vengeance have to take place in between those pages...!
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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by frogcoin » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:21 pm

sorry my mistake XF@ 4 i was refering to the issue regarding jean being abducted.

well i think you got the idea. i have arranged almost all and so far it fits ok even moving the UX issues (because storm goes preteen), destinys death, MLF in avengers all AA and AoV.

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Re: Jean Grey's Appearances in Atlantis Attacks

Post by metaldragon » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:34 am

OK, here's my completely insane breakdown of X-Factor and The New Mutants from the end of Inferno through the Judgment War, Asgard, Atlantis Attacks, and Acts of Vengeance storylines trying figure out how they mesh. I don't have the issues of Uncanny X-Men from that period post-Inferno so I'm going by the general info I have on them. Please fill in any details I missed.

Inferno conclusion:
UX 243-XF 39, NM 74

UX 244 (- 245?)

UXM@ 13 [Atlantis Attacks Chapter 3]

NM 75 [New Mutants return to Xavier’s to see it in ruins, argue with Magneto.]

XCAL 8 [New Mutants argue with Shadowcat. Phoenix sees Marvel Girl & baby “Nathan Christopher” aboard Ship.]

XF@ 4/3 [“Inferno Aftermath” X-Factor gets ready for Madelyne’s funeral (in XF 40).]

XF 40 [X-Factor attend Madelyne’s funeral, Nanny & Orphan Maker attack, X-Factor fights them off, recover Jean’s neice & nephew, Freedom Force takes mutant babies kidnapped during Inferno by goblins.]

NM 76 [X-terminators discover Namor’s horn from FF 4 while diving below Ship in the Atlantic Ocean. It summons a giant octopus monster which drags Ship underwater when Boom Boom blows it. The New Mutants return from New York and join them. Namor arrives to help fight monster. X-Factor returns from taking Jean’s family home (from end of XF 40).]

NM@ 5-FB pp 2-4, [“Weeks ago” flashback. Ghaur sees events of MN 76 & comments that Atuma’s attack on New York (in A@ 18 “Atlantis Attacks Chapter 8”?) takes place just before this story.]

(UX 245? Any other X-Men appearances?)

(gap of time) [XF 47-FB Angel story probably goes here. Beast appears in some M/CP stories and possibly Avengers 305 here? or does it belong in the NM 88 gap with Atlantis Attacks & Acts of Vengeance?]

XF 41 [A troll stalks a mutant kid in England. Dani has headache and feels hot (first signs of Hela’s spell on the Valkyries). The New Mutants decide to return Illyana to her parents and X-Factor heads to England to find kidnapped kid. They discover trolls really do exist!]

NM 77 pp 1-3 [New Mutants return Illyana to her parents in Siberia, Dani & Brightwind collapse from Hela’s spell.]
NM 77 pp 4-30 [“Many hours and time zones later...” New Mutants arrive in New York and Ship tells them X-Factor is still in England (XF 41-42). Ship examines Dani, prognosis: sorcery. Ship directs them Dr. Strange’s mansion where Dani & Brightwind burst into flame and attack the New Mutants. Dr. Strange convinces Dani to fight back and she manages to overcomes the spell just long enough to create an ice machine which freezes her and Brightwind.]

XF 42 [X-Factor frees Alchemy from Trolls. (Takes place same time as NM 77-78.)]

M/CP 17-24 [“Cyclops: Retribution” story possibly takes place here while X-Factor is in England right after the end of XF 42. Cyclops with Banshee & Callisto fights Master Mold on Muir Island while Moira tries to cure a virus that targets mutants that she created while under Master Mold’s influence. (During NM 77-78)]

(X-Factor returns to Ship (from England) here BTS sometime during NM 77-78.)

NM 78 pp 1-8 [New Mutants figure out how to transport frozen Dani & Brightwind back to Ship from Dr. Strange’s house. Freedom Force tracks them down with intent to arrest Rusty. New Mutants fight Freedom Force on Liberty Island. Skids stays and shields Rusy while rest of New Mutants try to reach Ship with Dani. Ship announces to X-Factor it cannot control itself and is launching into space. Avalanche destroys the ice machine, Dani is released, Dr. Strange teleports her & rest of the New Mutants to Asgard.]

XF 43-46 [“Judgment War” Ship suddenly launches into space to the surprise of X-Factor and arrives on alien planet about to be judged by the Celestials.]

NM 79-80 [New Mutants in Asgard.]

NM 80 pp 8-9 [Rusty & Skids taken from Liberty Island by Freedom Force late at night.]

XF 47 [“Judgment War” interlude framing story of Archangel having a flashback while imprisoned on the alien planet.]

NM 81 [Magma & Empath "interlude" framing story.]

NM 82 p20 [“Hours later” Rusty & Skids are shown in prison surrounded by Mystique, Blob, & Pyro who try to convince them to give up. Skids finally collapses from lack of rest & food.]

NM 82- 86 [New Mutants in Asgard (still).]

UX 246-247 [X-Men fight Master Mold, finally opening the Siege Perilous to be rid of it but it drags Rogue in with it.]

XF 48-50 [“Judgment War” concluding issues. X-Factor heads back to Earth and passes Starjammers in space.]

NM 87 pp 8-11 [New Mutants in Asgard, Dani stays.]
NM 87 pp 15-16 [New Mutants leave Asgard and enter dimension of the Mindless Ones.]
NM 87 pp 19-20 [New Mutants fight Mindless Ones.]
NM 87 p 27 [New Mutants arrive on Earth above ocean near Statue of Liberty.]

NM@ 5 [Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9.]

NM 87 p 31 [New Mutants spot Ship about to land and think it’s crashing.]

XF 51 pp 1-3 [Sabretooth attacks Morlocks.]
XF 51 pp 4-6 [Mole tries to escape Sabretooth.]
XF 51 pp 8-11 [X-Factor return to Earth. Ships lands on old X-Factor building site and transforms.]
XF 51 p 13 [Ship’s landing shakes the ground & casts it’s shadow over Acme Records where Opal works. She meets Mole in the basement.]
XF 51 pp 16-17 [Opal talks with Mole.]
XF 51 pp 18-20 [X-Factor deal with helicopters crashing.]
XF 51 pp 22-24 [Opal lets Mole stay and covers for him with her boss.]
XF 51 pp 25-27 [X-Factor talk to reporters and Archangel flies off while Sabretooth spots him and chooses him as his next victim.]

NM 88 pp 7-9 [New Mutants see Archangel fly off, they re-unite with rest of X-Factor & tell them about Asgard, Atlantis Attacks and mention Rusty & Skids.]

Atlantis Attacks conclusion:
XF@ 4 ["Chapter 10" Marvel Girl is kidnapped by Ghaur with Beast hanging on.]
(Storm captured BTS by Ghaur sometime shortly before UX 248, probably in similar way to Marvel Girl)
AWC@ 4 ["Chapter 12" Marvel Girl & Storm are Brides of Set]
T@ 14 ["Chapter 13" Marvel Girl & Storm are Brides of Set]
FF@ 22 ["Chapter 14" Marvel Girl & Storm are Brides of Set]

UX 248 [X-Men fight Nanny & Orphan Maker, Storm is turned into a pre-teen by Nanny.]

UX 249-255 [Events which end in Destiny & Stonewall’s deaths.]

Acts of Vengeance:
XF 49 p 16 [Apocalypse is observing villains on his screens and mentions Magneto, Red Skull, Kingpin, Dr. Doom, and the Wizard forming strange alliances. Also shown are the Juggernaut and possibly the Mandarin, (either Green or Hob-)goblin and... Foolkiller? He wonders if the armageddon he’s been anticipating is about to begin.]
XF 49 p 30 [Apocalypse identifies discovers the man behind the scenes manipulating the villains. The man steps through Apocalypse’s monitors and invites him to join & lead his Acts of Vengeance.]

XF 50/2 [Apocalypse grabs the mysterious man and demands to know who he is. Loki drops his disguise and fights back. Caliban attacks Loki from the shadows and Loki fries him with a spell. Apocalypse traps Loki in a forcefield, Caliban appears unharmed by the flames. Loki smashes his way out and returns to the screens before having a final word and blowing the screens up.]

(A whole bunch of “meanwhiles” which link them to the other storyline are ignored in the following New Mutant segments:)

NM 83 pp 20-22 [Rusty reads newspaper article about some events in the Vault (footnote: Avengers Spotlight 25). The Vulture is in the cell next to him, sees article about Nitro and announces his plot to free Nitro.]

NM 84 pp 11-13 [Vulture gets package with a pair of wings and bomb. Recognizes the Tinker’s work based on his designs and vows revenge. Rusty tries to stop him escaping and gets dragged along when Vulture flies out of prison through hole created by Tinker’s bomb.]

NM 85 pp 22-24 [Vulture dumps Rusty on the ground. Rusty frees Skids to help follow & stop the Vulture.]

NM 86 pp 1-3 [Vulture confronts Tinker. Tinker tells Vulture he got wing designs from man on computer monitor (Loki in disguise) with instructions to attack Speedball...! Vulture changes plans to release Nitro.]
NM 86 pp 4-6 [Rusty & Skids steal van from prison yard and smash their way out. They head for courthouse in Albany where Nitro is on trial.]
(There may be a gap of a few hours here for Rusty & Skids to get from the “maximum security federal prison” (near Washington, DC?) to the Albany courthouse and for the Vulture & Tinker to come up with a plan to free Nitro.)
NM 86 pp 8-20 [Vulture smashes through courthouse skylight and flies Nitro’s canister to roof. Rusty & Skids arrive in damaged van. Vulture forces Tinker to open hole in Nitro’s canister. Police, Rusty & Skids climb to the roof try to stop them but Nitro frees himself from canister. Rusty grabs Vulture as he’s about to fly away and they crash back onto the roof when Rusty destroys his wings. Skids wraps her forcefield around Nitro as he explodes which disrupts his ability to reform so he’s unable to detonate again and dissipates.]
NM 86 pp 25-29 [Freedom Force and the press arrive. Blob beats on Rusty when he tries to tell the press the truth. Crimson Commando says, “Our own teammates, Destiny and Stonewall, have just fallen tragically to scum like them.” to the press to explain their use of force to arrest Rusty, Skids, Vulture and Tinker whom they claim were working together to free Nitro and resisting arrest.]
NM 86 pp 30-31 [“Elsewhere and hours later” the MLF firebomb an “energy research facility” and demand Rusty & Skids be freed or they will do worse. Cable makes his first, cameo appearance.]

XF 51 pp 3-4 [Apocalypse & Caliban watch Sabretooth attacking Morlocks in New York from their “citadel beneath the Himalayas”.]
XF 51 pp 14-15 [Apocalypse watches Ship’s landing & transformation while Caliban runs through a training sequence.]
XF 51 pp 29-30 [Caliban escapes Apocalypse and teleports after Sabretooth.]
(It’s possible that Apocalypse is reviewing tapes of Sabretooth hunting the Morlocks and X-Factor’s return to Earth from his “citadel beneath the Himalayas” and is deliberately testing Caliban to see his reactions here.)

NM 87 pp1-6 [The MLF plants a bomb in another energy research facility in Pine Bluffs, Wyoming while Cable arrives too late to stop them.]
NM pp13-14 [Skids watches the news on the prison hospital room tv while Rusty is unconscious from head injury & drugs. Mystique enters and wants to know their connection to the MLF.]
NM 87 pp 17-18 [Stryfe sends the MLF to Washington DC to the prison Rusty & Skids are in, Cable is waiting for them.]
NM 87 pp 22-25 [Cable attacks MLF but gets paralyzed by Reaper & metal arm melted by Strobe.]
NM 87 pp 29-30 [The MLF teleport Rusty & Skids out.]
NM 87 p 31 panels 4-7 [Cable locked up in a “military complex outside of Washington”.]

NM 88 pp 1-6 panels 1-3 [Blob, Pyro & Crimson Commando question Cable about his connection to the MLF. Mystique tells them that X-Factor’s ship has “just landed” in New York.]
NM 88 p 9 panels 3-4, p 11-13 panel 1 [Cable fakes being sick, takes out guards, escapes cell.]
NM 88 pp 13-14 [New Mutants & X-Factor watch recording of Rusty & Skids arrest & Stryfe’s demands. They call Washington and a receptionist informs them Freedom Force is in a meeting.]
NM 88 pp 15-18 [Cable ambushes Freedom Force when they come out of their meeting, takes out Pyro and smashes through a window to escape.]
NM 88 pp 19-22 [Sam and Roberto phone home.]
NM 88 pp 24-25 [Cable lays a trap for Super Sabre which Blob spots just in time but it delays them long enough for Cable to steal a helicopter.]
NM 88 pp 27-29 [Wolfsbane talks to (a Shadow King possessed) Moira McTaggert who informs her she’ll be coming to take her back to Muir Island.]
NM 88 p 30 [Cable escapes in chopper while Mystique, Blob and Crimson Commando plan to recapture him.]

NM 89 [Cable flies copter from Washington, DC to New York before getting shot down by Freedom Force who’s chopper he takes out in return. Boom Boom, Cannonball & Sunspot run into Cable being chased down by Freedom Force. Moira McTaggert arrives on Ship to take Wolfsbane back to Muir Island, Rictor & Warlock try to stop her. The rest of the New Mutants show up with Cable and he convinces Moira to leave without Wolfsbane, for some reason Legion, over Ship’s video link to Muir Island, agrees.]

XF 52 [Sabretooth attacks Archangel which begins Ravens storyline.]

Hopefully this makes sense! NM 88 is still a mess but that's as close to getting all the references to line up as far as I'm able. If you guys could flesh out the X-Men issues and any Avengers, Freedom Force, Nanny & Orphan Maker storylines that crossover here that would be awesome.
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