X-Men Reload chronologies ... yes, THIS again. [MERGED]

[JephYork]

Hey, all. I'm doing a five-years-later look back at the chronologies for the X-Men for the next issue of the Index, and right now I'm focusing on the period between Magneto's destruction of the mansion and M-Day. (Basically, between X #151-176.)

We talked about this at the time -- endlessly, in fact -- but I'm re-reading all the books and re-building the chronology with a fresh eye, just to see if I spot things we missed, or come at things differently than I did before.

Right now the MCP has Professor X appearing in Cable & Deadpool #3 right after New X-Men #139. I think that's a little off -- CDPOOL #3 was published the month of X #157 -- that's an eighteen-month displacement, and I don't think it needs to be that excessive.

There are some conflicting clues as to Prof. X's status here. He says that Cable is "connecting minds across the ocean", which leads me to think he's a telepathic projection. But he also makes coffee in Cable's kitchen and drinks it, and Cable appears to telekinetically lift him when he's disassembling the safehouse. So it's also possible that he's physically there.

If he IS physically there, he's walking, so this should be before X #146. If he's projecting, he could be crippled again (and just appearing to walk) -- but he's still wearing his Morrison-era outfit, and he is apparently still in touch with the X-Men* -- both clues that place this at least prior to UXM #442, where he leaves for Genosha.

* In CDPOOL #6, Cyclops tells Nick Fury that Professor X warned Cable that people would try to stop him. The only way Cyclops would know that is if Professor X told him (or another X-Man, who then told Cyclops) after the conversation.

At the end of CDPOOL #6, Cyclops & co. show up in Reload costumes. There IS a gap of "weeks" between the bulk of CDPOOL #6 and its epilogue, but I think placing the start of the issue way back circa X #139, and placing the epilogue after the ReLoad costumes are adopted, is pushing the definition of "weeks".

On balance, it seeme to me that Professor X actually IS physically there -- his "connecting across oceans" line could be referring to Cable's telepathic conversation with Irene, which Prof. X overheard. So I'd suggest a placement just before X #146 -- the last possible slot where a walking Prof. X makes sense.

Thoughts? Did I miss an obvious clue why the X #139 placement IS right?

I'm sure I'll have other questions for everyone as this process continues ... it's gonna be a fun weekend!

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Jeph, I don't see any reason your suggestion wouldn't work. In fact, it points out a discrepancy in the Calendar that should be corrected. I placed the segment of C&DP 3 in which Cable appears on May 25, then on June 21 I placed MYSTIQUE 11 with the notation that: "Forge mentions that Xavier 'isn't at the mansion tonight,' ...Xavier could possibly be in Switzerland visiting Cable in C&DP 3." Obviously, I need to place C&DP 3 (1-11:3) on June 21, just three days before Xavier's next appearance, in X 146. If this works for everyone, I'll go ahead and make the change in my revised draft Calendar.

[JephYork]

Actually, in Mystique #10, Forge notes some "drama at the mansion" -- a reference to Magneto destroying it. So Mystique #11-12 would take place after X #146-150 (and thus after CDPOOL #3). Forge is probably being oblique because he's trying to keep Mystique in the dark about the true scope of the turmoil after Magneto's attack.

(Xavier appears in Mystique #7, projecting himself from a class he's teaching, so THAT goes before X #146...)

-Jeph!

[JephYork]

I just noticed something: the students are first split into six-person squads, led by their advisor, at the end of NX #2. However, in UX #444 (pp.12), Rogue is escorting six students to the Danger Room, for "their" session. (We see them again in UX #446, in the Danger Room itself.) Is this "Rogue's squad"? Does this mean that NX #1-2 -- and by extension, probably #3-6 -- should go before that portion of UXM #444?

(I already have that portion of UXM #444 after X #157-160 ... we created a couple of gaps in this issue to shove other X-stories.)

-Jeph!

[JephYork]

I'm sorry, I just need to flag up this line of dialogue from X #158.

"FOOL! You are in CHINA!

AND YOU ARE NOT CHINESE!"

... how can you not love Chuck Austen?

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Jeph wrote:

Actually, in Mystique #10, Forge notes some "drama at the mansion" -- a reference to Magneto destroying it. So Mystique #11-12 would take place after X #146-150 (and thus after CDPOOL #3). Forge is probably being oblique because he's trying to keep Mystique in the dark about the true scope of the turmoil after Magneto's attack.

Well, actually, Forge mentions in MYSTIQUE 11-FB (just before MYSTIQUE 11) that Xavier "isn't at the mansion tonight," as if Xavier would normally be there. This clue places MYSTIQUE 11-12 before the destruction of the Institute, not after the reconstruction. The ""drama at the mansion" noted in MYSTIQUE 10 doesn't necessarily have to be about the events of X 146-150. There's always drama of some sort or other at the mansion. I theorized that the drama had to do with news reports regarding a wolf-girl running around the woods of Westchester, a reference to NM2 11.

[JephYork]

Like I said, my take is that Forge is being oblique. Mystique doesn't need to know that the mansion is destroyed, the X-Men are in turmoil and Professor X is thinking of giving up and leaving for Genosha. It might make her feel bold and try to escape his servitude.

(From a real-world publishing point of view, Mystique #11-12 were published the same months as New X-Men #153-154, before readers have learned the ultimate outcome of Magneto's attack. We knew the school was destroyed; we didn't know where the X-Men would go from there. And the other books' writers were probably not allowed to do anything but vaguely hint. THAT'S probably why Forge's comment is so non-specific.)

From a non-calendar perspective, by the way, this argument is irrelevant -- since Xavier doesn't actually appear in #11-12. But here's a question for you -- does he appear bts in #13? In that issue, Mystique gets a mission from Shortpack, who got it from "Professor X's contact". Does that necessarily imply that the contact got it from Xavier? How does their little spy ring work?

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Jeph wrote:

But here's a question for you -- does he appear bts in #13? In that issue, Mystique gets a mission from Shortpack, who got it from "Professor X's contact". Does that necessarily imply that the contact got it from Xavier? How does their little spy ring work?

I've always assumed Xavier was BTS in MYSTIQUE 13. I noted that since Mystique is on another "errand run" for Xavier and Shortpack believes Xavier to be reachable by Shepard, that story may occur before the "Magneto" disaster of X 146-150. I find the "drama at the mansion" reference to be the most flexible as far as placement goes.

[JephYork]

Hmm. Then again, as a telepath who found that the island of Genosha somehow amplified his abilities, it's not inconceivable that he continued his spy ring FROM Genosha, is it? Did the Mystique series ever tell us that he stopped giving out missions at some point?

Personally, I take the "drama" line to be the ONLY significant chronological clue we have.

(Heh -- I've actually really missed having chronology debates like this! Yay!)

Here's one, while we're on the Mystique topic -- EVA apparently died in Weapon X v2 #25. Yet there she is in Mystique #20-24 -- published around six months later. What did we decide about that?

Weapon X: Days of Future Now #1 p.15 (set "3 weeks in the future" after a "present day" segment set after New Avengers #6) confirmed that EVA was, as far as Fantomex knew, still dead. Which would put the Mystique story before her death. (Or AFTER the point where that future timeline breaks off -- so after New Avengers #6.) But -- have we seen EVA since?

Fantomex is supposed to be returning in Dark Reign: the List: Wolverine, so maybe tht will shed some light ... but I doubt it.

-Jeph!

[Somebody]

But -- have we seen EVA since?

Better question - has *Fantomex* appeared since that Mystique arc?

The suggestion in Archive 61 was perhaps to split the crashed-EVA scene at the end of WX2 25 off and place after the Mystique arc. But there also seems to have been a consensus that people didn't like the "jailbreak" line referring to New Avengers #6, and would prefer that it referred to an earlier jailbreak somewhere else...

[JephYork]

Without dredging through Archive #61, the jailbreak pretty much HAS to refer to New Avengers #6. Sauron is lurking in the shadows, and the dialogue refers to a "jailbreak that turned an enemy into a friend" -- meaning Sauron, who in the "three weeks later" future segment has turned his loyalties from Weapon X to Weapon Plus. What other alternatives to that line were there?

Splitting the "death of EVA" scene off from the rest of WX2 #25 is a great idea, though. Nothing at all ties the EVA crash to the rest of the issue. Thanks for reminding me!

-Jeph!

[JephYork]

X-Men Unlimited v2, story #1. Before the mansion's destruction or after?

Argument for before: looks like old mansion, kid mentions Prof. X in present tense, Scott, Emma & Beast wearing Morrison-era costumes.

Argument for after: Scott and Emma taking the kids out together? Did they ever do things together before becoming headmasters? Also, from a purely calendar-y perspective, ReLoad was the start of the fall semester ... a pre-Reload placement would mean Halloween in the spring or summer.

Thoughts? It seems pretty cut-and-dried to me (as happening before the destruction), but the Scott/Emma pairing makes me itch. Any other thoughts?

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Jeph wrote:

I just noticed something: the students are first split into six-person squads, led by their advisor, at the end of NX #2. However, in UX #444 (pp.12), Rogue is escorting six students to the Danger Room, for "their" session. (We see them again in UX #446, in the Danger Room itself.) Is this "Rogue's squad"? Does this mean that NX #1-2 -- and by extension, probably #3-6 -- should go before that portion of UXM #444?

Good point. I don't think there'd be any reason not to move UX 444 after NX 2. Unless someone sees a flaw in this reordering, let's move UX 444-449 to a point shortly after NX 6 (1-18).

[Paul Bourcier]

Jeph wrote:

X-Men Unlimited v2, story #1. Before the mansion's destruction or after?

I assume you mean XU2 1/2. I place that story before, given the three clues you note. I tried not to make the Halloween reference topical by placing this story on the Halloween the year before. Check out the Calendar to see if that placement is problematic.

[Somebody]

Actually, just a thought - shouldn't the whole of DOFN be an alternate timeline and as such irrelevant? When future-Wolverine (followed by future-Sublime) went back, he would have split off a new timeline, which became the MU that we know (and the Sublime we've seen all along would be the DOFN version, killing/replacing its' alternate-past self).