Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Col_Fury, michel, Arthur, Somebody, StrayLamb

Locked
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by JephYork »

I'm editing the Index entry for UX #423 right now, and I'm trying to describe the characters seen on p.1. I need quick little descriptive words, like "Nazis", "Roman soldiers", that sort of thing.

Panel 1 - we have Roman soldiers, Jesus and two thieves up on crosses -- but who are the people at the crosses' base, praying? As I understand it, "Chritsianity" per se didn't exist at that time, so they're not "early Christians" -- what would you call these people? "Jesus' disciples"?

panel 2 - obviously the Crusades, but who are the knights fighting against? Wikipedia tells me that the Crusades were fought against a LOT of different people -- are these meant to be anyone specific? If not, how should I refer to them?

panel 3 - tribesmen, converted to Christianity. What are they called -- are they Polynesian? Or is that too specific? I'd like a catchall phrase like "african tribesmen", only for a different part of the world.

panel 4 - Nazis and Jewish prisoners, obviously. Is there some specific word I'm looking for to describe the Jews, though? "Prisoners" is too vague and "inmates" sounds like they're criminals. They're "internment camps" but I don't think I can make "intern" into a noun that way. Suggestions?

panel 5 - this looks like ethnic cleansing of some sort to me, but I don't know which one. That flag at the right -- what country is it? It looks like a reversed and miscolored Slovakia, but was there any ethnic cleansing there? Does anyone recognize the soldiers' uniform styles?

Thanks to anyone who helps...

-Jeph
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by Paul Bourcier »

panel 1 -- how about "Jesus' followers?"

panel 2 -- how about "Crusaders and their enemies?"

panel 3 -- how about "native Pacific islanders?"

panel 4 -- how about "Nazi soldiers and Jewish concentration camp prisoners?"

panel 5 -- that flag is not Slovakia's, or that of any real nation; it may be an MU nation; was there a documented ethnic cleansing in any MU nation?
Paul B.
User avatar
Russ Chappell
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5667
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Contact:

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by Russ Chappell »

Paul Bourcier wrote:panel 4 -- how about "Nazi soldiers and Jewish concentration camp prisoners?"
Are they Nazis, or German soldiers?
I can't promise you that things will improve, if we make changes;
I can promise you that they won't improve, if we don't.

Image
Adventures in the Marvelous Zone! A Girl's View of the Marvel Universe
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by JephYork »

There's a big Nazi flag in the background -- and soldiers are herding prisoners at gunpoint through a courtyard ringed with barbed wire fences. My impression was that it was meant to be Auschwitz or one of the other deathcamps.

As for the flag, I'm starting to think it's supposed to be Serbia. Totally miscolored and the crest is on the wrong side, but wasn't there an ethnic cleansing there a while back against Croatians?

-Jeph!
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by Paul Bourcier »

Jeph wrote:
As for the flag, I'm starting to think it's supposed to be Serbia. Totally miscolored and the crest is on the wrong side, but wasn't there an ethnic cleansing there a while back against Croatians?
Given how far off the flag is, you'd be hard-pressed to say that this is Serbia. The scene was probably inspired by the Bosnian genocide under Serbia's Slobodan Milosevic, but I think that's all you can say. Maybe "unidentified eastern European ethnic cleansers and their victims."
Paul B.
User avatar
Russ Chappell
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5667
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Contact:

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by Russ Chappell »

jephyork wrote:There's a big Nazi flag in the background -- and soldiers are herding prisoners at gunpoint through a courtyard ringed with barbed wire fences. My impression was that it was meant to be Auschwitz or one of the other deathcamps.
Yes, there's a Nazi flag, but I'm not sure what that tells us. The concentration camps were a program of the Nazi political party; it's not surprising that a Nazi flag would fly over them. I guess it all boils down to how confident you are that the German soldiers who were stationed at those camps were Nazis, perforce.
I can't promise you that things will improve, if we make changes;
I can promise you that they won't improve, if we don't.

Image
Adventures in the Marvelous Zone! A Girl's View of the Marvel Universe
User avatar
Somebody
Director
Director
Posts: 3388
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by Somebody »

Well, since they were soldiers in the service of the Nazi government of Germany, they were therefore "Nazi soldiers" regardless of their personal political beliefs and affiliations, in the way some Gurkhas are "British soldiers" because they serve in the UK army, despite being native Nepalese citizens.
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by JephYork »

I'll put "Nazi soldiers", rather than "Nazis".

And my ignorance is showing, but if that flag is meant to be Serbia, and that scene is meant to be ethnic cleansing -- what do you call their victims? Bosnians? Croatians? Something else?

-Jeph!
User avatar
Somebody
Director
Director
Posts: 3388
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by Somebody »

Here's a short and reasonably accurate primer: http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistor ... bosnia.htm
Enda80
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 1152
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:02 pm

Re: Question about the characters on p.1 of UX #423

Post by Enda80 »

jephyork wrote:I'm editing the Index entry for UX #423 right now, and I'm trying to describe the characters seen on p.1. I need quick little descriptive words, like "Nazis", "Roman soldiers", that sort of thing.

Panel 1 - we have Roman soldiers, Jesus and two thieves up on crosses -- but who are the people at the crosses' base, praying? As I understand it, "Chritsianity" per se didn't exist at that time, so they're not "early Christians" -- what would you call these people? "Jesus' disciples"?

panel 5 - this looks like ethnic cleansing of some sort to me, but I don't know which one. That flag at the right -- what country is it? It looks like a reversed and miscolored Slovakia, but was there any ethnic cleansing there? Does anyone recognize the soldiers' uniform styles?

Thanks to anyone who helps...

-Jeph
The Marvel Atlas has some of the flags of the fictional countries of Earth-616.
Locked