Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Somebody » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:09 pm

Marvel Boy wrote:Where does "pulling a Tigra" originate from?

I'm going to go ahead and assume that it has something to do with Bendis.
Actually, that one's John Byrne. As I recall, he put Tigra in a WCA Annual as her usual self after he'd turned her feral and had Hank Pym shrink & cage her. He was later forced to tell readers on a letter page to pretend they hadn't seen her in the Annual.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Marvel Boy » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:25 pm

Somebody wrote:
Marvel Boy wrote:Where does "pulling a Tigra" originate from?

I'm going to go ahead and assume that it has something to do with Bendis.
Actually, that one's John Byrne. As I recall, he put Tigra in a WCA Annual as her usual self after he'd turned her feral and had Hank Pym shrink & cage her. He was later forced to tell readers on a letter page to pretend they hadn't seen her in the Annual.
Ha, thanks. That's pretty funny. And the best thing about it is that it gives us comic fans precedent any time we need a character removed from a story.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion, Now With Added Hood Goodness!

Post by WayneLW » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:47 am

Col_Fury wrote:Only going off the Hood, we have DR:HOOD 1-5 before Punisher 2-6, which is before Mighty Avengers #24, which is before DR:Mr Negative, which is before ASM 595-599. And all of that has to happen BEFORE Dark Avengers 5-FB, 5, & 6?

I'mn starting to think "pulling a Tigra" may be the only option...
Now, if I get this wrong, don't beat me, but here's another potential problem – how does Avengers: Initiative fit into all this?

The reason I ask is that, at the end of DR:HOOD 5, Hood sends his cousin John away for what is implied to be a long time due to his screw-ups over the stretch of the mini (revealing information about Hood's family), leaving Hood with nobody. As well, the source of Hood's powers in the mini is explicitly Dormammu.

However, in this week's Avengers: Initiative, Hood shows up, with John, by name. However, Hood has his new Norn Stone powers in this issue, and it's referred to that Hood had his Dormammu powers stripped away. There seems to be a contradiction here – Hood sends John away while he still has Dormammu powers, but after Hood acquires new Norn powers, John is still around.

Sorry if any of this is unclear. Although I'm an avid follower of the site, I rarely manage to contribute, as I usually get my books months later. If anything in my rambling is unclear, please ask, and I'll try to clarify.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:06 am

WayneLW wrote:
However, in this week's Avengers: Initiative, Hood shows up, with John, by name. However, Hood has his new Norn Stone powers in this issue, and it's referred to that Hood had his Dormammu powers stripped away.
Are you referring to NEW AVENGERS #58 rather than AVENGERS: INITIATIVE #29? If so, you're absolutely right. Not only that, but A4 58 occurs after the Hood's gang defected to Jonas Harrow, yet when John King is shunned in DR:HOOD 5, Hood's gang is still with him. King's going to have to return to the Hood.
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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by WayneLW » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:07 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:Are you referring to NEW AVENGERS #58 rather than AVENGERS: INITIATIVE #29? If so, you're absolutely right. Not only that, but A4 58 occurs after the Hood's gang defected to Jonas Harrow, yet when John King is shunned in DR:HOOD 5, Hood's gang is still with him. King's going to have to return to the Hood.
(Looks around sheepishly)

Actually, it seems I'm referring to both. The John King return is from New Avengers # 58, but Hood seems to have his new Norn Stone powers in this issue, and it's referred to that Hood had his Dormammu powers stripped away by Donyell Taylor – "Oh, I know you, Hood. You used to have some magic. But I saw it on the TV – that brother with the dreads, Dr. Voodoo, took it off you like lunch money." Hood, however, does not visibly use any powers this issue.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Marvel Boy » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:30 am

In case anyone's wondering, this is the updated list of Noh-Varr's major (non-cameo) appearances (spoilers for the DA Annual):

Marvel Boy #1-6
New Avengers: Illuminati #4
Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways #2-4
Mighty Avengers #19, pages 1-3
“Marvel Boy: Master of the Cube,” from Secret Invasion: Who Do You Trust? one-shot
Mighty Avengers #19, pages 4-22
Secret Invasion #1, 6-8
Dark Avengers #1-4
Dark Avengers #5, pages 3-6, 9-10, 13-14
All-New Savage She-Hulk #3
Dark Avengers #5, pages 1-2, 7-8, 11-12, 15-22
Dark Avengers Annual, pages 1-3
Ms. Marvel #35
Dark Reign: The List – Wolverine one-shot
SWORD #2-3*
Dark Avengers Annual #1, pages 4-48

*This week's preview for the title still shows him in his Marvel Boy outfit, meaning it has to come before the DA Annual as he gets decked out in a new costume. And he's listed as appearing in issue three, so it's natural to assume that the story will directly follow issue #2. And it's placement obviously tentative until the actual issues are released.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:16 pm

Thanks, Marv. Here's the way Noh-Varr's post-SI chronology works out for me at this point:

DARK AVENGERS #1
DARK AVENGERS #2
DARK AVENGERS #3
DARK AVENGERS #4
DARK AVENGERS #5-FB
ALL-NEW SAVAGE SHE-HULK #3
MS. MARVEL v2 #35
DARK AVENGERS #5
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (1)-FB (I interpret this page as him fleeing from Avengers Tower right after DA 5)
DARK AVENGERS: THE LIST -- WOLVERINE #1
SWORD #2
SWORD #3
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (3)-FB (I lumped these panels together for simplicity sake)
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (incl. page 2, which I interpreted as current)
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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Marvel Boy » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:54 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:Thanks, Marv. Here's the way Noh-Varr's post-SI chronology works out for me at this point:

DARK AVENGERS #1
DARK AVENGERS #2
DARK AVENGERS #3
DARK AVENGERS #4
DARK AVENGERS #5-FB
ALL-NEW SAVAGE SHE-HULK #3
MS. MARVEL v2 #35
DARK AVENGERS #5
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (1)-FB (I interpret this page as him fleeing from Avengers Tower right after DA 5)
DARK AVENGERS: THE LIST -- WOLVERINE #1
SWORD #2
SWORD #3
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (3)-FB (I lumped these panels together for simplicity sake)
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (incl. page 2, which I interpreted as current)
Personally, I like to think MM35 takes place after he leaves and does a little soul searching, and it fits nicely when Carol remarks that Osborn didn't know that Noh-Varr was there. I don't think it was planned at all, but it works out well.

As for the first three pages of the DA Annual, I figured it could go either way. I just lumped them together as taking place almost immediately after his escape just because they were in black and white, while the color pages were the ones taking place right now.

But both mine and yours fits fine, so it's all up to however one wants to interpret things.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:58 am

MSM2 35 occurs before DA 5 (way before) because of larger MU chronology considerations.

I realized I forgot two Noh-Varr appearances, which were noted in an earlier post by Col_Fury:

FREE COMIC BOOK DAY 2009: AVENGERS #1 (between DA 5-FB and ANSSH 2)

THOR #600 (between MSM2 35 and DA 5)
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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Marvel Boy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:15 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:MSM2 35 occurs before DA 5 (way before) because of larger MU chronology considerations.
What are those? This isn't meant as a challenge; I'm just slightly ignorant to larger Marvel happenings.
I realized I forgot two Noh-Varr appearances, which were noted in an earlier post by Col_Fury:

FREE COMIC BOOK DAY 2009: AVENGERS #1 (between DA 5-FB and ANSSH 2)

THOR #600 (between MSM2 35 and DA 5)
Yeah, I left those out because they were some of his lesser appearances. He's also in Incredible Herc, Deadpool, Dark Wolverine, and a few others, which would occur in the same gap I suppose.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:22 pm

Marvel Boy wrote:
What are those? This isn't meant as a challenge; I'm just slightly ignorant to larger Marvel happenings.
The whole Ms. Marvel story arc involving her "dying" and returning (through MSM2 46) occurs after MSM2 35. This must occur before her many appearances fully recovered and able to use her powers. Spidey appears in that MSM arc before he takes off for two months to the Macroverse with the FF in ASM 590-591. After that, Noh-Varr appears as one of Osborn's Avengers in the American Son story arc in ASM 596-597. I put together a more comprehensive Noh-Varr chronology, picking up from DA 3:

DARK AVENGERS #3
DARK AVENGERS #4
DARK AVENGERS #5 (3-6)-FB
DARK AVENGERS #5 (9-10)-FB
FREE COMIC BOOK DAY 2009: AVENGERS #1
ALL-NEW SAVAGE SHE-HULK #2
ALL-NEW SAVAGE SHE-HULK #3
ALL-NEW SAVAGE SHE-HULK #4 (1-20)
DARK REIGN: NEW NATION #1/2
MS. MARVEL v2 #35
CAPTAIN AMERICA v5 #48 (21-22)
THOR #600
DARK WOLVERINE #75
DARK WOLVERINE #76
MS. MARVEL v2 #40
DEADPOOL v4 #10
DARK REIGN: LETHAL LEGION #2 (17-20)-FB
DARK REIGN: LETHAL LEGION #1 (9)-FB
INCREDIBLE HERCULES #127 (5-22)
INCREDIBLE HERCULES #128
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #596 (1)-FB
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #596
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #597
DARK AVENGERS #5
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (1)-FB
DARK AVENGERS: THE LIST – WOLVERINE #1
SWORD #2
SWORD #3
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 (3)-FB
DARK AVENGERS ANNUAL #1
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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Marvel Boy » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:08 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:Marvel Boy wrote:
What are those? This isn't meant as a challenge; I'm just slightly ignorant to larger Marvel happenings.
The whole Ms. Marvel story arc involving her "dying" and returning (through MSM2 46) occurs after MSM2 35. This must occur before her many appearances fully recovered and able to use her powers. Spidey appears in that MSM arc before he takes off for two months to the Macroverse with the FF in ASM 590-591. After that, Noh-Varr appears as one of Osborn's Avengers in the American Son story arc in ASM 596-597.
Ah, okay. Thanks.

And well done on that chronology... I'm tempted to pick up the issues that you listed that I don't have (MM40, DR:NN, DR:LL), but I promised myself that I wouldn't pick up any more comics just to see him stand around and do nothing. I felt like an idiot after picking up CA48 to see him at a funeral for one panel.

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Re: Noh-Varr Appearance Confusion

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:46 am

Marvel Boy wrote:
I'm tempted to pick up the issues that you listed that I don't have (MM40, DR:NN, DR:LL), but I promised myself that I wouldn't pick up any more comics just to see him stand around and do nothing
Well, Noh-Varr's involved in a battle in MSM2 40. He doesn't do much in DR:NN and DR:LL.
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