Recent X-chronology

[Paul Bourcier]

The launch of Necrosha this week emphasizes a conundrum in recent X-history -- that is, the placement of the Utopia storyline relative to the storyline in XFOR3 12-20.

XFOR3 12-20 appears to occur over the course of a couple of days. XFOR3 12 begins "days" after XFOR3 11, during which time Rahne is missing. XFOR3 12 shows a scene at "Graymalkin Industries," suggesting placement before Utopia. Rahne runs into Hrimhari in that issue too. XFOR3 12 leads directly into XFOR3 13-17, which cross over with C3 13-15 to form the Messiah War storyline. That storyline involves Cyclops having X-Force travel into the future against their will to deal with Cable and Bishop. During this time Rahne is with Hrimhari at Angel's Aerie.

Immediately upon returning to the present, in XFOR3 17, Laura is captured by HAMMER and Rahne and Hrimhari are attacked by Frost Giants.
This leads directly into XFOR3 18, when the captured X-23 finds herself in the hands of the Facility and her arm is cut off by Kimura. Rahne and Hrimhari battle the Frost Giants in that issue, and Logan's pissed at Scott for sending X-Force into the future. Surge and Elixir are in the med lab at "Graymalkin Industries" in XFOR3 18, again suggesting placement before the Utopia storyline. Also in XFOR3 18, Eli Bard, Caliban, and Wither rise from their graves in Salem Center and approach Doug Ramsey’s grave. That scene is followed directly by NECROSHA X #1/2 (1-4), in which Ramsey is reanimated by the T-O virus. This scene occurs "two weeks" before NECROSHA X #1.

XFOR3 19 follows directly from XFOR3 18 -- the one-armed X-23 is still at the Facility and Rahne and Hrimhari finish their battle with the Frost Giants, leaving Rahne severely wounded. Amazingly, a scene in XFOR3 19 is set at "Utopia" rather than Graymalkin Industries, suggesting placement after the Utopia storyline. Alson in this issue, Selene summons the reanimated Destiny. That scene is followed directly by the flashback in NECROSHA X #1/3, which occurs "one week" before NECROSHA #1. XFOR3 19 leads directly into XFOR3 20, in which Angel and Warpath return to the Aerie to encounter Hrimhari holding the wounded Rahne and asking for Elixir's help. Logan and Domino teleport the one-armed X-23 out of the Facility in XFOR3 20, and the reanimated Ramsey is summoned for his attack on Utopia with other reanimated mutants.

This attack is seen in NM3 6 and in the three stories in NECROSHA X. NM3 6 occurs after NM 5, which definitely occurs after the Utopia storyline. In NM3 6, Xavier sees the reconstituted New Mutants for the first time. In NECROSHA X #1, X-23's arm is regrowing and Logan demands to know what happened at the Facility. In NECROSHA #1/2, Angel, Warpath, and Hrimhari are transporting the injured Rahne to Utopia and Warren asks Hrimhari to explain what happened.

So, where exactly can the week-long Utopia storyline fit into all this? Bear in mind that Archangel and a two-armed X-23 appear with the X-Men in various books in the Utopia storyline. Wolfsbane does not appear in the Utopia storyline.

Will we need to place Utopia before Messiah War, perhaps during the span of "days" between XFOR3 11 and 12? We'll need to ignore the references to Graymalkin Industries in XFOR3 12 and 18 (or explain them somehow). We'll also need to ignore the time references of "two weeks" between pages 2 and 3 of NECX 1/2 and "one week" between NECX 1/3 and its flashback, given the tightness of continuity in XFOR 18-19 and NECROSHA. And, obviously, X-Force would need to act freely outside of Utopia in XFOR3 12-20. Are there other problems with placing XFOR3 12-20 after the Utopia storyline?

[Jason Doty]

Arn't the X-Men still using Graymalkin Industries, even though Hammer is outside. I'm pretty sure they've been teleporting people in and out, to remove things thanks to the current X-Men vs. Agents Of Atlas mini. Does that help in moving Messiah War after Utopia.

[Paul Bourcier]

My impression is that they've been systematically gutting Graymalkin Industries of equipment and other resources and moving it to Utopia. One might argue that some parts of GI, such as the med bay, were still being used until proper facilities could be established at Utopia. Are there still problems in placing Messiah War after Utopia?

Oh, and my references to NECROSHA X (which is how I saw it solicited somewhere) should be to X-NECROSHA, which is the title in the indicia.

[shmoo]

The only other problem I can see with putting Messiah War after Utopia is that in Dark X-Men: The Confession, Cyclops tells Emma about sending X-Force to the future. I guess we could just say he told her he was *planning* to send them to the future.

I'm also beginning to think we may have some other issues coming up:

It looks like Beast might leave in UXM #519. If he leaves, that means it has to be after Messiah War (since Beast is present when Scott sends them back). But there's no break between Messiah War and Necrosha, so that means UXM #519 must also be before Necrosha. But it looks like Magneto is going to be in the X-Men: Legacy issues of Necrosha, so that means Necrosha must be after UXM #516.

It could be that, despite Scott wanting to do the "intervention" with Emma the day after UXM #517, Necrosha got in the way and delayed that, but that doesn't work because the Cuckoos are still injured in UXM #518 but are active in Necrosha.

Depending on how quickly this "Scott has the void" thing is resolved and, if nothing else screws it up, maybe the "intervention" happened while X-Force was doing their Not Forgotten stuff, since it does seem like there was at least some time in that storyline while X-23 was missing. Basically, Scott sent X-Force off after the Leper Queen and then went to meet with Emma, etc. Still stretching it, since Angel appears in UXM #518 too, but maybe those scenes happened earlier.

Another possibility is that there is a longer gap between Magneto's arrival and the Scalphunter/Predator X attack than it seems in UXM #516.

But anyway, probably makes sense to wait for UXM #519 and the Necrosha issues of X-Men: Legacy before worrying about this too much.

[JD]

Just as a note : the back-up of this week's X-Force Annual #1 is an Necrosha tie-in, featuring Deadpool of all people.
In there, we learn (at the same time as Deadpool, who's not really keeping track) that Magneto has been on the island for "weeks" by the time of the initial attack on Utopia (a cutaway scene shows Cyclops & co fighting the zombie Hellions).

It's written by Yost and Kyle, who should know about the chronology of their own crossover.

[JephYork]

Sadly, there's absolutely no way at all that a gap can be created between X-23's rescue of Boom-Boom and her capture by HAMMER.

Cyclops' reference to the "Messiah War" storyline in DXM:Confession is pretty explicit. He talks about three mutants getting kidnapped (we see Surge, hellion & Boom-Boom), and how rather than have X-Force save them, he sent them off to save Hope.

"X Necrosha" absolutely has to happen after "Utopia" -- and yet, DXM:Confession occurs before "Utopia". I think we just have to write off Confession's reference as an error.

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Jeph wrote:

I think we just have to write off Confession's reference as an error.

Then we'll have to ignore not only Scott's explicit dialog about Messiah War, we'll also have to ignore flashback panels that show specific actions as they unfolded in Messiah War. UNLESS, we treat those panels as flash-forwards.

Ugh.

[JephYork]

I know. It's a bad scene.

The X-Club talks about having already invented the time-travel devices in UXM #509, too...

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

Okay, I took some time to look at this again, and I have to conclude that we are indeed faced with an impossible situation. I agree with Jeph that the least disruptive solution is to ignore Scott's dialog on page 16 of DARK X-MEN: THE CONFESSION -- just pretend it doesn't exist. The visuals on this page can be considered canonical glimpses into the future, however. So the solution is to pull "half a Tigra."

However, we are going to have to insert a gap somewhere in the run of X-FORCE v3, with one portion occurring before DARK X-MEN: THE CONFESSION and one occurring after the Utopia story arc. A logical spot might be between issues #6 and #7, although Elixir is being kept at Angel's aerie in XFOR3 7 to prevent him from divulging the team's existence. That doesn't square with his presence in San Francisco in UX 510, UTOPIA, and EXODUS. Also, that would force flashbacks on page 14 of DARK X-MEN: THE CONFESSION to be flash-forwards as well, since they tie into XFOR3 7 and 9. This renders more of Scott's dialog unusable.

There is a gap of "days" between XFOR3 11 and 12, but Rahne would have to be missing for that entire gap, during which CONFESSION and all of the Utopia arc (and probably more) would have to occur. Rahne doesn't appear elswhere during this time, so this may be the better solution. Supposedly she ran off with Hrimhari for a while after XFOR3 10 and the effort to find her isn't seen until much later, in XFOR3 12.

This has to be the worst continuity foul-up in a while.

[Paul Bourcier]

A few more notes to consider:

X-MEN: LEGACY #1 (and X-MEN: LEGACY #228-230, which immediately follow it) occurs during the "week" after EXODUS. During that week, DEADPOOL v4 #16-18 should happen, since it follows up right from EXODUS. NEW MUTANTS v3 #5 should also occur during that week; in that issue, which precedes Necrosha, Scott congratulates Dani on her performance against Osborn's Avengers.

I'm inclined to put Messiah War and Necrosha (which together occur over the span of only two days so far) in that week as well, after NM3 5. As pointed out, Beast appears in Messiah War and the Cuckoos have their powers in Necrosha.

Because the Cuckoos appear fine in X 228, I'd place X 228-230 before the Phoenix Force leaves them in UX 515-517. In that arc, Magneto shows up. With the Cuckoos out of commission, Scott plans to conduct a psychic rescue in Emma's mind "first thing tomorrow morning."

That psychic rescue occurs in UX 518, which leads into UX 519. The Beast is supposed to leave the team in UX 519. I'm hoping there's a gap in UX 519 to allow for NATION X #1.

In NATION X #1, both Magneto and the Beast appear, placing this story between UX 517 and the end of UX 519. Emma appears here in diamond mode, which itself is inconclusive, but she does mention that "psi-sweeps" were done to detect the supposed ghost on Utopia. If the Cuckoos are out of commission, then Emma's presumably the only one who could conduct those sweeps. NATION X #1/3 shows Emma in her normal form, so that's going to have to occur in the hoped-for gap in UX 519 or after UX 519. The other stories in NATION X #1 will probably be placed near the first and third stories.

Emma appears in her normal form in WOLVERINE: ORIGINS #42, so that's going to have to occur after UX 519. W:O 42 picks up from W:O 41, and I'm not sure how connected earlier issues of W:O are to W:O 41, but Logan's going to have to appear there after UX 519.

Of course, the Beast, will have to appear in SWORD #1 after UX 519. That story continues directly into SWORD #2, which features Scott and Emma in normal form. If Beast goes directly from the X-Men to SWORD, then that W:O arc likely occurs after the current SWORD arc.

Then there's DARK REIGN: THE LIST -- X-MEN #1. This story occurs over the course of at least nine days. The Cuckoos are fine here and Emma's in her diamond form. That suggests placement before X 515.

DARK X-MEN: THE LIST -- WOLVERINE #1 will need to occur after DR:TLX 1, based on publication order of THE LIST books. Noh-Varr must appear in DR:TLW 1 prior to his capture in SWORD 2.

So, to recap:
DARK AVENGERS/UNCANNY X-MEN: EXODUS #1
DEADPOOL v4 #16-18
NEW MUTANTS v3 #5
Messiah War
Necrosha
X-MEN: LEGACY ANNUAL #1
X-MEN: LEGACY #228-230
DARK REIGN: THE LIST -- X-MEN #1
DARK REIGN: THE LIST -- WOLVERINE #1
UNCANNY X-MEN #515-519
NATION X #1 (maybe in a gap in UX 519)
SWORD #1-2
WOLVERINE: ORIGINS #41-42 (maybe earlier issues)

How does this look?

[Somebody]

X-Force has had a dose of the Bendis since at least #7, between tying into whatever status quo exists in the wider X-books regardless of its' own internal timeline, and the problem with Wolfsbane only being on the team for five minutes even while guest-appearances of X-Force involved her (up to and including the lead story in this month's Annual, which, judging from Robert Kirkman's name being on it, has been lying on the shelf for a while).

However, we are going to have to insert a gap somewhere in the run of X-FORCE v3, with one portion occurring before DARK X-MEN: THE CONFESSION and one occurring after the Utopia story arc. A logical spot might be between issues #6 and #7, although Elixir is being kept at Angel's aerie in XFOR3 7 to prevent him from divulging the team's existence. That doesn't square with his presence in San Francisco in UX 510, UTOPIA, and EXODUS. Also, that would force flashbacks on page 14 of DARK X-MEN: THE CONFESSION to be flash-forwards as well, since they tie into XFOR3 7 and 9. This renders more of Scott's dialog unusable.

There is a gap of "days" between XFOR3 11 and 12, but Rahne would have to be missing for that entire gap, during which CONFESSION and all of the Utopia arc (and probably more) would have to occur. Rahne doesn't appear elswhere during this time, so this may be the better solution. Supposedly she ran off with Hrimhari for a while after XFOR3 10 and the effort to find her isn't seen until much later, in XFOR3 12.

Let's just take a look at XFOR3 7-10 for a moment, since you're trying to boot them after Utopia:

XFOR3 7 (2): Hepzibah is on the phone to Warpath. Captioned "San Francisco", with establishing shot. [Note that per UX 495-499, she was one of the first to go to SF]
XFOR3 7 (4): "Angel's Aerie, Colorado" Elixir has just figured out what is going on Re: X-Force and is saying how "Alani and the others will notice" if they try to keep him there. X-23 says its' inevitable that he'll tell someone, and Cyclops will have to kill him. Given her subsequent actions to avoid that, it doesn't appear that she's joking.
XFOR3 7 (5-10): Rahne is still set to trigger when she sees Warren; Warren loses it completely when she goes for him and transforms to an out-of-control Archangel. Cyclops is wearing a NXM-era jacket, apparently as casual wear. Wolverine suggests calling Frost to "deprogram these two", and Cyclops says "No, Emma stays out of it". Wolverine replies "So we'll just keep Angel-killer Sinclair and the Fourth Horseman here as ticking time-bombs. Good call."
XFOR3 7 (11): "S.H.I.E.L.D. Administrative Offices". Ali Morales and Agent Young's uniforms bear SHIELD, not HAMMER insignia (as do the files)
XFOR3 7 (13): Next morning, Cyclops is wearing his ReLoad (i.e., pre-SF) costume. The Stepford Cuckoos are there, called by X-23 to deprogram Rahne and mindwipe Elixir. They say Frost can read their minds individually (meaning she's not stuck in diamond form), but collectively they can shut her out.

At the end of the issue, they get a mission to go after the Vanisher because he's got a Legacy Virus sample.

XFOR3 8: They take Angel/Archangel because Warpath's off on his own and Rahne is incapacitated. X-23 goes on about how he can't be trusted, meaning the transformation's still recent [Note that, per HTU 1, XFOR 1-6 and Angel becoming Archangel again must occur pre-SI.], and Warren's narration backs that up, mentioning how it's "so soon after... 'The Attack'. [He] told [Cyclops he] was fine. [He] lied." He goes back into Death-mode until Domino comes along and sticks a gun in his mouth. In Colorado, Rahne's having flashbacks.

I'll stop there, but trying to shove #7-10 (and the tied #11 framing sequence) so far forward is a HUGE stretch - although Wolfsbane (who takes off in #9 and hasn't come back yet) is a problem either way - and would render a lot more than a couple of extra bits of dialogue moot.

[And, in #12, we have some big establishing shots of Greymalkin and so on to deal with. Ali Morales now works for "the organisation formerly known as SHIELD", and it's only in #13 that they finally mention HAMMER and show the HAMMER logo, although the uniforms are still SHIELD blue/white rather than HAMMER green/purple]

[Paul Bourcier]

Actually, Somebody, I pretty much talked myself out of putting XFOR3 7-11 after Utopia (see that previous post again). You've provided some great added reasons for putting the necessary gap later, as I suggested (between XFOR3 11 and 12).

And that gap is going to have to be HUGE. XFOR3 1-6 must occur before YX 1. YX 6 has to occur before the Skrull Invasion. (And you noted that XFOR3 7 must occur before SHIELD is shut down at the end of SI 8.) The time span between the Skrull Invasion and Utopia is a good several months long to accommodate the many Dark Reign stories that occur. I've been busy plotting out that entire period, and you're right, XFOR3 (and really all the X-titles) are a bit sparse for this lengthy time.

With a huge gap between XFOR3 11 and 12, can we say that Rahne went away with Hrimhari for an extended period and eventually returned to Angel's aerie?

[JD]

Necrosha
[...]
X-MEN: LEGACY ANNUAL #1
X-MEN: LEGACY #228-230
[...]
UNCANNY X-MEN #515-519

Nope, this doesn't work. As mentioned previously, XFOR3 @1/2 is a Necrosha tie-in that happens "weeks" after Magneto gets on the island. It's a major plot point there that Magneto's around, and he's set to feature in X 231-233 (also a Necrosha tie-in) anyway.

There must be a gap somewhere in UX 515-519 for Necrosha to occur (and X? @1 & X 228-230 are presumably pre-Necrosha).

[Somebody]

Having finally got round to reading SWORD #2, are you absolutely certain that goes AFTER Utopia?

With a huge gap between XFOR3 11 and 12, can we say that Rahne went away with Hrimhari for an extended period and eventually returned to Angel's aerie?

There's not really a problem with that from the point of view of XFOR3. The tricky part is inserting her appearances in SI:X, C3, XFOR@2 1, etc somewhere into there.

We've talked about this before, though - particularly in relation to SI:X - and there really ISN'T a satisfactory answer. Everything suggested boiled down to rewriting her subplot in XFOR3 to some extent, and short of taking her scenes with Hrimhari in XFOR3 9 & 10 out of sequence with the rest of the issues (placing them after XFOR3 11 and her guest-appearances with X-Force, which I don't like doing), I doubt there's ever going to be a satisfactory answer.

[Paul Bourcier]

JD wrote:

Nope, this doesn't work. As mentioned previously, XFOR3 @1/2 is a Necrosha tie-in that happens "weeks" after Magneto gets on the island. It's a major plot point there that Magneto's around, and he's set to feature in X 231-233 (also a Necrosha tie-in) anyway.

I'm not entirely convinced yet that XFOR@3 1/2 is a Necrosha tie-in. Sure, Cyclops, Emma, Vanisher, and Domino are seen fighting the Hellions, but the Hellions are focused on fighting the New Mutants in Necrosha. Could the resurrected Hellions survive Necrosha and appear weeks later in another X-Men battle? I'm taking a "wait and see" stance on this one.

Somebody wrote:

There's not really a problem with that from the point of view of XFOR3. The tricky part is inserting her appearances in SI:X, C3, XFOR@2 1, etc somewhere into there.

Okay, I think I have a satisfactory solution. Pages 19 and 20 of XFOR3 10, the scene in which Rahne encounters Hrimhari outside of Angel's aerie, is labeled as "EPILOGUE ONE." To me, that's a signal that all bets are off regarding any implication that the scene occurs the same day as the rest of the issue. Rahne and Hrimhari do not appear in XFOR3 11; their next appearance is in XFOR3 12, which picks up right where the couple left off in that epilogue. In XFOR3 12, the Cuckoos have been trying to find Rahne "for days," so we can conclude that XFOR3 12 occurs days after epilogue one of XFOR3 10, not days after the rest of XFOR3 10.

Okay, you say, what about the pair of eyes that Rahne sees out the window in XFOR3 9, the sight that drew her out to encounter Hrimhari to begin with? Surely, that scene has to occur the same time as the rest of XFOR3 9. In fact, Rahne is listening to a radio report that "the cleanup in the aftermath of the invasion continues." That clearly places Rahne in XFOR3 9 shortly after Secret Invasion," which needs to be months before Messiah War. So what's up with that? Maybe Rahne is thinking about Hrimhari in XFOR3 9 and only thinks she sees him, but the truth is that it was some trick of the light outside. Coincidentally, Rahne ends up meeting Hrimhari in the same location months later. Or maybe Rahne experienced a premonition in XFOR3 9.

* The scene with SHIELD in XFOR3 7 occurs just two days prior to XFOR3 9. Unless we put another gap somewhere between XFOR3 7 and 9, my theory is that the SHIELD scene in XFOR3 7 occurs right after Invasion but before SHIELD is shut down, a very small window of time.

We can explain that Rahne was not with the rest of X-Force when they returned to the aerie in XFOR3 10-11 because she was roaming the woods (fruitlessly).

Whatcha say?