X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

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X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by gregorynbaker »

I have been waiting for a while for someone to try to fit X-Men: First Class into canon. After much searching, I read several posts saying that the MCP, following the Official Index..., was not including it. Then it was mentioned in X-Men vs. Agents of Atlas, and the question of its canonicity came up again. So I decided to re-read the series (since it is complete as of X-Men: First Class Finals 4) and see how it might fit and what the continuity head aches would be. The biggest, ironically enough, was Angel's parents knowing he was a mutant. I had to "invent" a story to fix that, but everything else seemed to make sense.

As many already guessed, the order of the issues in the series is ignored unless there is a reference to a previous issue. This is the placement I came up with. Please comment or correct.

X-Men I 7 = The X-Men graduate high school. Xavier leaves and the X-Men fight Blob.
X-Men I 8 = Beast briefly quits the team and the X-Men fight Unus.
X-Men I 9 = Xavier returns to the X-Men after fighting Lucifer (the event which caused Xavier to appoint Cyclops leader of the team)
X-Men: First Class I 1 = Iceman has recently overheard the scene in X-Men I 7 where Cyclops is appointed leader
X-Men I 10 = X-Men vs. Ka-Zar
X-Men: First Class I 2 = This is placed early because Martha Connors mentions the last time she knew of Curt becoming Lizard was Amazing Spider-Man I 6.
X-Men: First Class II 10 = This is placed early because Frederick mentions it has been "years" since he fought Cyclops in X-Men: First Class Finals 2.1
X-Men I 11 = X-Men fight Stranger. Mastermind turned to stone. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver quit the Brotherhood. At the end, Juggernaut appears on alarms
X-Men I 12 = X-Men vs. Juggernaut
X-Men I 13 = X-Men vs. Juggernaut
X-Men: First Class I 6 = Xavier goes on "vacation" to Africa. The X-Men first encounter the Skrulls. Coffee-a-Go-Go is a popular X-Men hangout
X-Men: First Class I 7 = About a week later, the X-Men discover Angel and Scarlet Witch have been secretly dating. They break up.
X-Men: First Class I 8 = About a week later (Scott mentions Xavier has been gone for 2 weeks).The X-Men come to Africa and meet Gorilla-Man
X-Men: First Class II 9 = Black Widow, working for SHIELD, tries to recruit the un-affliated Scarlet Witch. She refuses. It must be before Avengers I 16 (where Wanda joins the Avengers). It must be after Tales of Suspense I 64.1 (Black Widow has her fishnet superhero costume). It must be after Strange Tales I 135.1 (Fury is director of SHIELD), but before Strange Tales I 137.1-141.1 (where SHIELD first decisively defeats HYDRA). My guess is that after failing the mission in Tales of Suspense I 64.1, Black Widow was recruited into SHIELD by the newly appointed Nick Fury. She went on about one mission (this one) before being recaptured by the Russians and brainwashed (Avengers I 16). Once the brainwashing is removed (Avengers I 29-33), her next appearance is again working with SHIELD (Avengers I 36-37).
(Avengers I 16)
X-Men: First Class I 5 = During the engagement period of Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Girl. The X-Men and Thor fight Ymir and Iceman is mistaken for a frost giant. This must be before Avengers I 61, when Ymir returns.
X-Men: First Class II 2 = The X-Men are lured to Monster Island by Mastermind (still trapped as a statue)
X-Men: First Class II 3.1 = The adventure continues and Mastermind-Statue is sent away (he soon recovers and/or is rescued by Factor Three)
(Fantastic Four I Annual 3) = The wedding of Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Girl. The X-Men attend
X-Men I 14 = Shortly after the Wedding (see Marvels 2), the X-Men begin their battle with the Sentinels. The "nagging" injuries from Juggernaut must be mostly ignored.
X-Men I 15 = X-Men vs. Sentinels
X-Men I 16 = X-Men vs. Sentinels
X-Men I 17 = Shortly thereafter, X-Men vs. Magneto
X-Men I 18 = X-Men vs. Magneto. This issue ends with the Worthingtons, having encountered but forgotten Magneto, having dinner with the X-Men. In order to fit the "Worthingtons know about Warren's secret" error into continuity, one must imagine that Warren comes clean about his being a mutant during this dinner.
X-Men: First Class II 12.1 = Shortly after the dinner, the Worthingtons return. They are disgusted by their son and his mutant friends (who they only guess about). Warren goes to visit his Aunt Mimi and decides to stay in a village where he is accepted.
X-Men: First Class II 13 = Warren is off the team. Xavier recruits Machine Man into the team. The fight Lava Men.
X-Men: First Class II 14.1 = Machine Man is shown to be X-50, not X-51 and this adventure happens as there is an X-Series Factory mishap. Dr. Stack says this will lead the overseers of the project to install self-destruct mechanisms into the robots. But this is not the end of the project. When X-35 goes haywire some time later in 2001 8, it is the last straw and THAT is when the X-Series robots (except X-51 of course) are destroyed.
X-Men: First Class II 14.2 = That night, perhaps, the X-Men reminisce about Warren. They remember various events. Only one (Bobby's story about Warren's car) must be considered something else than what it is intended to be (the aftermath of X-Men: First Class II 4).
X-Men: First Class II 15.1 = The X-Men encounter Medusa after she escapes in a "UFO" from the Frightful Four and Fantastic Four in Fantastic Four I 43. She is freed of amnesia and goes to seek the Inhumans. In Fantastic Four I 44, the Inhuman Saga begins when Medusa returns to encounter the Fantastic Four again.
X-Men: First Class II 15.2 = Minutes later, Warren explains why he returned (fear of marriage). At some point after this, sensing the anger in the Worthingtons, Xavier makes them forget they know Warren is a mutant.
X-Men: First Class II 1 = Marvel Girl, feeling unaccepted after failing to fly, is sent to learn from Invisible Girl for a few days. All end up fighting the Mad Thinker and his Awesome Android. Human Torch flirts with her, so it is likely that he has not yet met Crystal (so it is before Fantastic Four I 44).
X-Men: First Class II 16 = After tiffs with their teams, Iceman and Human Torch form a short-lived team for a few days (fighting Beetle and Scorpion while Spider-Man attends a party with Gwen Stacy). At the end they part after Johnny flirts with Zelda (again probably before Fantastic Four I 44).
X-Men I 19 = The X-Men meet Mimic
X-Men: First Class II 3.2 = After Scarlet Witch has been on the Avengers for a short while (she is living in New York, not Transia), Marvel Girl and Scarlet Witch hang out together
X-Men I 20 = X-Men vs. Lucifer, etc.
X-Men I 21 = X-Men vs. Lucifer, etc.
X-Men: First Class II 5.1 = The X-Men are sent after the Hulk. They do not know Banner and the Hulk are the same. Hulk is aided by Rick Jones. This must take place between Tales to Astonish I 79.2 and 80.2. At the end of 79.2, Hulk has returned from an alternate future and sulks in the desert. At the beginning of 80.2, Hulk is still sulking in the desert and then goes off and adventure that will lead to him fighting the Secret Empire. This is the only break where Hulk can really do anything. Rick has returned from being Captain America's sidekick, but is mostly living at the army base yelling at Ross. This story supposes Hulk, depressed, heads north to escape the Army. Rick follows. Ross calls in the X-Men (through Duncan) and the X-Men learn the truth about the Hulk. Rick has recently told Glenn Talbot and Betty Ross at this point, but it is not yet common knowledge. Afterwards, the Hulk realizes there is no peace in the north either, returns to the desert (losing Rick) and continues sulking.
X-Men: First Class II 5.2 = This prank by Jean and Xavier can happen almost anytime. I kept it near the other story in the issue
X-Men: First Class II 6.2 = A little while after their hang-out, Jean and Wanda go on an adventure and fight Mole Man.
X-Men I 22 = X-Men vs. Nefaria
X-Men I 23 = X-Men vs. Nefaria
X-Men: First Class II 12.2 = Beast uses a machine to learn Angel's origin. It is imperfect (Beast is still young) and for some reason (actually an error by Parker), Angel is shown as getting his wings in front of his parents and that being the impetus for him going to boarding school (where as in other sources, he got his wings at the boarding school)
X-Men I 24 = X-Men vs. Locust
X-Men: First Class I 3 = Xavier has an error with Cerebro, bring the X-Men into his mindscape. This can happen almost anytime after the battle with the Sentinels
X-Men I 25 = X-Men vs. El Tigre/Kukulkan
X-Men I 26 = X-Men vs. El Tigre/Kukulkan
X-Men I 27 = Mimic joins the team.
X-Men I 28 = X-Men vs. Banshee. Factor Three Saga begins
X-Men I 29 = X-Men vs. Super Adaptoid. Mimic quits
X-Men I 30 = X-Men vs. "Warlock" (the fake Merlin)
X-Men I 31 = X-Men vs. Cobalt Man
X-Men I 32 = X-Men vs. Juggernaut
X-Men I 33 = X-Men vs. Juggernaut, aided by Dr. Strange. They go into the Crimson Dimension (and it is later revealed, bring back a demon). During the fight, Xavier is kidnapped by Factor Three
X-Men I 34 = The X-Men seek Xavier, vs. Tyrannus
X-Men I 35 = The X-Men seek Xavier, vs. Spider-Man (thanks to a misinterpreted clue from Banshee)
X-Men I 36 = The X-Men seek Xavier, vs. Mechano
X-Men I 37 = X-Men vs. Factor Three
X-Men I 38.1 = X-Men vs. Factor Three
X-Men I 39.1 = X-Men vs. Factor Three. They get new uniforms at the end
X-Men: First Class I 4 = Now that Xavier is back, the X-Men encounter the Crimson Dimension demon. He is returned with the help of Dr. Strange
Marvel Holiday Special.1 fb (1994) = On Christmas, Beast and Iceman go to hear Bernard the Poet and encounter a Lava Man
X-Men: First Class Special.1 = Beast and Iceman meet a gargoyle mutant
X-Men: First Class Special.3 = The X-Men go to Bernard the Poet's final performance. He is revealed as a mutant and his powers go out of control. Xavier uses telepathy convinces him never to perform again.
X-Men I 40.1 = Changeling begins impersonating Xavier. They fight a Frankenstein robot
X-Men I 41.1-42.1 = vs. Grotesk, who kills Changeling disguised as Xavier

Xavier is always with the team or otherwise accounted for, so none of the issues take place during the time when he is "dead" (X-Men I 43.1-65).
X-Men I 66 leads directly into X-Men: The Hidden Years (via X-Men II 94.2), which is pretty tight chronologically.

X-Men: The Hidden Years 22 = The X-Men finish their battle with Magneto/Fantastic Four (c. Fantastic Four I 104). Loose ends are tied up and all celebrate Beast's 20th birthday. This about the same time as the Kree-Skrull War.
New Avengers: Illuminati I = Xavier joins the Illuminati. Though he mentions Krakoa as a possible threat, the group (off panel) decides the Skrulls are a greater threat and go to fight them. Krakoa is put on the back-burner until he grows too powerful to ignore (Giant-Size X-Men 1.1)
New Avengers: Illuminati II 1 = The Illuminati confront the Skrull emperor. They are captured, but escape. The Emperor vows revenge and plans for the "Secret Invasion" begin
Incredible Hulk II 150 = Havok and Iceman fight over Lorna and Havok and Lorna leave the team. They end up in the southwest as geologists and encounter the Hulk
X-Men: First Class II 4 = It is vacation time. Scott goes off with Alex. Jean goes with her parents (including temporarily clean-shaven John Grey) to Switzerland and Warren goes to Maine. Hank and Bobby go on a road trip. This must be this late because everyone knows about Alex, but he is not with the team. Beast comment about Jean preferring Warren must be considered a joke. As mentioned before the aftermath of the flood in Florida, where Warren's car is flooded is referred to when Warren leaves the team, but Alex's presence in this issue forces the later reference to refer to something else.
X-Men: First Class II 6.1 = The X-Men encounter an alien force that steals their powers just as 100 Sentinels attack
X-Men: First Class II 7 = The Sentinels, a rogue batch made by original Master Mold, ignore them and attack Avengers Mansion (empty of everyone except Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch). The "shoreline" must be considered to be a lake in Central Park nearby (or ignored). The alien force supercharges the X-Men's power and they destroy all the Sentinels
X-Men: First Class II 8 = The alien force is returned to space. While in Florida, the X-Men reunite with Curt Connors (presumably before he returns to New York around Amazing Spider-Man I 101) and meet the newly created Man-Thing (close enough to his first appearance in Savage Tales 1.3), who shows them possible futures
X-Men: First Class II 11 = Weeks later, the X-Men encounter the "Continuiteens" and fight Mysterio. The 'teens had been receiving comics from another dimension until Man-Thing closed it off. They end up sucked through a dimensional portal (which shows Doop and Venom from future).
X-Men: First Class Giant-Size Special = Agent Baker sends Beast and others to "look for aliens". After several adventures, they find none. It is revealed that Baker is an advance Skrull agent, probably having been there since the first X-Men/Skrull encounter back in X-Men: First Class I 6. He mentions the "Secret Invasion" so it must be after New Avengers: Illuminati II 1.
X-Men: First Class Finals 1.2 = Scott and Jean go on a date. Beast is still with the team
X-Men: First Class Finals 2.2 = Date continues. Scarlet Witch is with the Avengers (and has lost her accent)
X-Men: First Class Finals 3.2 = Date ends with encounter with Man-Thing, who shows them the future
X-Men: First Class Finals 1.1 = Beast receives job offer from Brand Corp. The X-Men fight Frederick and Xavier's "final exam tests"
X-Men: First Class Finals 2.1 = The X-Men fight Frederick and Xavier's "final exam tests", Juggernaut helps
X-Men: First Class Finals 3.1 = The X-Men fight Frederick and Xavier's "final exam tests". Juggernaut is actually a figment from Jean's mind
X-Men: First Class Finals 4 = Jean's mind is visited and all is set to right. The X-Men graduate college. The last page is not "an hour later" but "sometime later" as it leads into Giant-Size X-Men 1.1.
Amazing Adventures II 11 = Beast leaves the team to work at Brand Corp. and eventually becomes gray and furry.
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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by Russ Chappell »

gregorynbaker wrote:I read several posts saying that the MCP, following the Official Index..., was not including it.
Which posts?


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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by gregorynbaker »

One example from Paul Bourcier:

"Thanks, everyone, for the corrections and the sign-ups. I've updated the call.

And yes, First Class titles are non-canonical. :( I'm discontinuing their inclusion in the calls."

That was from "September Call for Analyses" dated 9/4/09.
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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by Russ Chappell »

But where have we said it was because of the Index?


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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by Russ Chappell »

By the way, nice work.
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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by JephYork »

I think the Index's position is going to be canonicity on a case-by-case basis. Meaning, X:FC #8 was referenced, so X:FC #8 is canon -- but for now we're holding off on presuming that this makes the entire series canon.

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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

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"May the Light shine forever!"
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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by Russ Chappell »

I'm not sure if this is in response to my question, but if so, I don't think it answers my question.

I know there have been many discussions on various First Class series. I'm not going to read every message in every thread you've posted here (the first thread alone has 22 pages).

My question is, where has the Project stated that we consider the First Class books non-canon because the Index didn't include them?

Shrug. Maybe Gregory didn't mean to imply that we did, but that's just the way I read it.
metaldragon wrote:There are some threads which discuss these issues:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2952

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3150

Plus some others which discuss the later issues not covered in those threads:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3364

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3400

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3449

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3694

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3816

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3991

And the 4 First Class Finals issues:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4236

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4280

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4318

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4339

*Phew!*
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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by JephYork »

I think metaldragon was just offering alternative discussions of their chronological placement.

I'm not sure why Greg Baker's possible implication matters so much.

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Re: X-Men: First Class - can it be canon?

Post by metaldragon »

jephyork wrote:I think metaldragon was just offering alternative discussions of their chronological placement.

I'm not sure why Greg Baker's possible implication matters so much.

-Jeph!
Sorry, yes- what Jeph said. Thanks Jeph. I was responding to this part of your original post:
gregorynbaker wrote:I have been waiting for a while for someone to try to fit X-Men: First Class into canon.
The reply to that is: A few of us HAVE tried to fit the First Class issues into Marvel chronology (if not "canon"- aka: plot points that future writers will reference in future stories) and have done quite a bit of research into it on here, so I thought I'd pull up those links for you.

The official reply to the "canon" issue was (if I'm remembering correctly): The creators of the issues have said they intended them to fit into Marvel 616 chronology but whether they will be considered canon is up to future Marvel writers to determine (if I've paraphrased them correctly). Hope that makes sense.
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