Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Iron Man vs Whiplash [moved from FCBD topic]

Post by Somebody » Sat May 08, 2010 6:27 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:This story shows that despite Thor's generous offer to Stark in IM5 25, Thor's and Iron Man's relationship is still a little guarded.
About that scene... it obviously takes place a while after Siege, but is played as the first time Thor has properly talked to this "new" Stark. And yet, there's the Avengers Prime (IM/Thor/SR) mini to come, which is meant to take place right on the heels of the Siege mini itself (with Stark still in the old armour Jarvis sent him during Siege). Wondering how - or if - they'll fit,

Also, still think the IM/Whiplash mini fits comfortably post-Siege? ;)

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Iron Man vs Whiplash

Post by Midnighter » Sat May 08, 2010 8:03 am

Somebody wrote:
Paul Bourcier wrote:This story shows that despite Thor's generous offer to Stark in IM5 25, Thor's and Iron Man's relationship is still a little guarded.
About that scene... it obviously takes place a while after Siege, but is played as the first time Thor has properly talked to this "new" Stark. And yet, there's the Avengers Prime (IM/Thor/SR) mini to come, which is meant to take place right on the heels of the Siege mini itself (with Stark still in the old armour Jarvis sent him during Siege). Wondering how - or if - they'll fit,

Also, still think the IM/Whiplash mini fits comfortably post-Siege? ;)
Hello, this is the first time I post here... First of all, i want to apologize for my english (I'm Italian, I read and understand english well, but I'm a little unconfortable with writing).
Then, I read the IM/Whiphlas mini and I think that it fits in the gap of time between the end of Secret Invasion and Invincible Iron Man 9, when Osborn publicly declare that Tony Stark is a fugitive. The armor seems to be the Extremis one, but Tony never use "Extremis powers" in that story (he rejected Extremis during Secret Invasion). As we see in Mighty Avengers 21/23, Tony use that armor even without Extremis, and so, in MA 21/23, we see that Stark Industries are still active. The only things in IM/Whiplash that make me doubtful are the attitude of Crimson Dynamo (later, in Invincible Iron Man, he act like a good friend of Tony, here he beat him as soon as he saw him), and the fact that Pepper appear without the "arc reacton" in her chest (camouflage? They're in disguise, after all...).

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Re: Free Comic Book Day

Post by Russ Chappell » Sat May 08, 2010 8:25 am

Welcome aboard, Midnighter!


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Re: Free Comic Book Day

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat May 08, 2010 8:37 am

Hi, Midnighter. Good to have you here.

I don't think your placement of Iron Man/Whiplash between Secret Invasion and Invicible Iron Man #9 (actually #8, as #8 leads directly into #9) will work. IM5 8 established that the Skrull virus reversed the Extremis modifications to Stark's body, and without them, he can barely control his Extremis armor. Putting IM/W between Secret Invasion and IM5 8 means that Iron Man would be ineffective in the mini.
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Re: Free Comic Book Day

Post by Midnighter » Sat May 08, 2010 9:56 am

Well, Tony use his armor in Mighty Avengers 21/23. In IM5 8 Tony says that's really more difficult to "drive" Iron Man without Extremis, but not impossible. And in Iron Man vs. Whiplash he use little functions of the armor (he just fly and use repulsors), surely less than MA 21/23. I think that IM/Whiplash fits just before MA 21/23. In both stories Stark Industries are active, Tony use Extremis armor without Extremis and is not a fugitive (well, in MA isn't clear, but the story begins with Iron Man at a Stark Research Plant, with many employers, so surely before Pepper Potts sign the dismission of SI). Also, in MA Osborn appears as Iron Patriot with Dark Avengers, so i think that between the "firing" of Tony in IM5 8 and the publicly announcement of Tony's being a traitor in IM5 9 we have to put a gap, where Norman bring Ghost to Avengers Tower, take possess of Iron Man tecnhology, and so on (basically, Dark Avengers 1/4).

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Re: Free Comic Book Day

Post by Somebody » Sat May 08, 2010 10:08 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:I don't think your placement of Iron Man/Whiplash between Secret Invasion and Invicible Iron Man #9 (actually #8, as #8 leads directly into #9) will work. IM5 8 established that the Skrull virus reversed the Extremis modifications to Stark's body, and without them, he can barely control his Extremis armor. Putting IM/W between Secret Invasion and IM5 8 means that Iron Man would be ineffective in the mini.
It didn't reverse all the Extremis modifications to his body - Tony's holomessages in IM5 19-24, what the surgeons find during that arc while inserting the arc reactor, and Tony himself in IM5 25 are fairly clear on that point. It broke what Tony referred to as the "Extremis conduit", which allowed his biology to take over certain armour functions and generally enhanced his interaction with his armour and remote (wireless) interaction with technology in general.

And, no, that isn't an ideal position. But all copies of the Extremis armour were destroyed as part of his armour purge in WMW, and he now has only his new armour, and maybe one suit of "classic" armour (depending on whether that is/was destroyed in A:PRIME or not), Stark Industries is effectively gone after WMW, and he may have been wearing a PRE-Extremis suit given the depiction in IMVWL anyway.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Somebody » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:05 am

So, what happened with this, then? With Stark broke after Siege, he hardly has the cash to splash in the way he seemingly does in this mini.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Michael » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:42 am

Maybe we should wait until Wednesday to see if Tony gets his wealth back at the end of the current arc. If he does, then I'd be inclined to say that Iron Man vs. Whiplash takes place after Invincible Iron Man 31. We've seen Tony spend large amounts of money shortly after being broke before, and we've seen the spare armors rebuilt after being destroyed before. If Tony doesn't get his wealth back, then I'd be inclined to say that Iron Man vs. Whiplash is out of continuity.
ETA: There's one more complicating factor- Matt Murdock appears and he doesn't seem to be possessed by the Beast. I'm not sure when Shadowland occurs relative to the current Iron Man arc. We don't yet know what Matt's status quo is going to be after Shadowland- if he's left in a coma for several issues of stories after the heroes manage to de-Beast Matt, for example, then he wouldn't be able to appear in Iron Man vs. Whiplash.
Last edited by Michael on Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Midnighter » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:57 am

We discussed about this mini in this topic.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Somebody » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:23 am

Midnighter wrote:We discussed about this mini in this topic.
Thanks for reminding me about that. Since we were off-topic in the FCBD thread, I've just moved/merged those posts over here.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Midnighter » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:48 am

Matt is fired by Foggy just before DD 500, right (after Secret Invasion, becouse Iron Fist and Izo speaks about Skrulls in the last issues of DD2)? He couldn't be a lawyer after that, so this story has to be sticked between Secret Invasion and the firing of Matt Murdock (I can't remember the issue, but it was one or two before DD 500).

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Michael » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:59 am

Matt was fired in Daredevil 118. And he joins the Hand two issues later. So this is either after Shadowland or before Matt gets fired. (Or not in continuity.)
I'm not sure that sticking Iron Man vs. Whiplash in between Secret Invasion and Tony's becoming a fugitive will work. Tony's business is clearly failing in Secret Invasion- does he have the money to spend that he does in Iron Man vs. Whiplash? There's also the fact that in Mighty Avengers 21-23, Hank can tell there's something "off" about Tony's behavior, while Tony's personality seems normal in Iron Man vs. Whiplash.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Michael » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:16 pm

OK,it doesn't look like it's possible to place Iron Man vs. Whiplash after Siege. It doesn't look like Tony is going to get his fortune back in the forseeable future- the latest issue of Thunderbolts made it clear that the main reason the Ghost is no longer the Avengers' enemy is because Tony is now a small businessman. Even worse, Shadowland is over and it looks like Matt is going to be wandering the United States seeking redemption for the next few months, with some of the other heroes resenting him for the events of Shadowland. Matt's appearance in Iron Man vs. Whiplash would make no sense after Shadowland. So either Iron Man vs. Whiplash takes place between Secret Invasion and Daredevil 118, or it's out of continuity.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Midnighter » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:56 am

The new Whiplash is portrayed in a variant cover of Iron Man, so I think that the character is considerated in continuity.

I think we have to set IMvsW between SI 8-FB and MA 21 for Iron Man. There was two weeks between SI 8-FB (the end of the Battle in Central Park against the Skrulls) and SI 8 (the promotion of Norman Osborn as chief of national security), i think that's the only spot. Tony use his armor even without Extremis later, during MA 21/23, so he can do it during this story.

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Re: Iron Man vs. Whiplash

Post by Michael » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:14 am

The new Whiplash is portrayed in a variant cover of Iron Man, so I think that the character is considerated in continuity.
The general rule is that the covers represent artistic license but are not to be considered for continuity purposes. There's a very long list of scenes that appeared on the covers of various stories but were nowhere in the actual issues. Can anyone think of an instance where the Iron Man vs. Whiplash series is referenced in an actual story?

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