Defenders in Rom 65 and 66 and Sub-M2 3

[Chris McCarver]

Dr. Strange and Peter Parker also appear in Sub-M2 3 watching the same speech by Namor, (as well as the Fantastic Four [Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, & She-Hulk] and the Defenders [Valkyrie, Moondragon, Iceman, Beast, Angel, & Gargoyle]). Interesting that Dr. Strange & Spider-Man don't appear in ROM either.

Doctor Strange was busy with the Fantastic Four in FF #277/DRSTR2 #75 during ROM #65-66. The real world reason Spider-Man doesn't appear in ROM is that Ditko refused to draw him. (Spidey appeared as a head on a ROM cover, but Ditko didn't draw him, the inker added him.) AFAIK, what Spidey was doing during Worldmerge is still unrevealed today. Not that fans are clamoring to know.

Dunno if these would've been events that would've prevented his showing up in the Rom issues, but Spidey's appearance in SUB-M2 3 was bookended by a couple bombshells: Mary Jane revealing that she's known his dual identity the whole time (ASM 257) and learning the black costume was alive (ASM 258).

[metaldragon]

I guess the final question is, does something happen to Namor in the other 3 issues of this mini that places it after the ROM story? (I only own SUB-M2 3 for the Defenders appearance.) Or does it have something to do with overall Marvel continuity at this point in time? Why was it originally placed after the ROM issues when it came out 5 months before them?

[Chris McCarver]

I just checked the Bibliography from the OHOTMU's most recent entry for Namor (pretty comprehensive, that) and it has the issues ordered as follows:

[...]
FF 261
SUB-M2 1
SUB-M2 2
SUB-M2 3
SUB-M2 4
AF 12
AF 14
AF 15
AF 16
ROM 65
M/FAN 20
[...]

[metaldragon]

Ah! In that case I would suggest this arrangement for the Defenders:

Angel, Beast, Cloud (BTS?), Gargoyle, Iceman, Moondragon, Valkyrie

DEF 139 (pages 1-6)
SUB-M2 3 (Defenders watch Namor's speech, Moondragon in green costume with Odin's headband, Gargoyle's hand not shown)
DEF 139 (pages 7-on) (Moondragon freed from Odin's power-restraining headband)
DEF 140 (Moondragon debuts her new black & white costume)
DEF 141 (Gargoyle's hand regrows)
DEF 142 (footnote mentions "current issue of ROM")
ROM 65 (Moondragon's headband and costume are "art error")
ROM 66
DEF 143

[Michael]

I just checked the Bibliography from the OHOTMU's most recent entry for Namor (pretty comprehensive, that) and it has the issues ordered as follows:

[...]
FF 261
SUB-M2 1
SUB-M2 2
SUB-M2 3
SUB-M2 4
AF 12
AF 14
AF 15
AF 16
ROM 65
M/FAN 20
[...]

That can't be right though. At the end of Sub Mariner #4, Namor loses the kingship of Atlantis and he doesn't get it back until the 1990's. In Alpha Flight 14, he's clearly the ruler of Atlantis and there are references to him being the ruler of Atlantis in issues 15 and 16 as well. We have the Sub-Mariner limited series taking place after Alpha Flight 14-16 for precisely this reason.

[metaldragon]

Dr. Strange and Peter Parker also appear in Sub-M2 3 watching the same speech by Namor, (as well as the Fantastic Four [Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, & She-Hulk] and the Defenders [Valkyrie, Moondragon, Iceman, Beast, Angel, & Gargoyle]). Interesting that Dr. Strange & Spider-Man don't appear in ROM either.

Doctor Strange was busy with the Fantastic Four in FF #277/DRSTR2 #75 during ROM #65-66. The real world reason Spider-Man doesn't appear in ROM is that Ditko refused to draw him. (Spidey appeared as a head on a ROM cover, but Ditko didn't draw him, the inker added him.) AFAIK, what Spidey was doing during Worldmerge is still unrevealed today. Not that fans are clamoring to know.

Dunno if these would've been events that would've prevented his showing up in the Rom issues, but Spidey's appearance in SUB-M2 3 was bookended by a couple bombshells: Mary Jane revealing that she's known his dual identity the whole time (ASM 257) and learning the black costume was alive (ASM 258).

Well, purely going by the cover dates, ROM 65-66 came out the same months as Amazing # 263-264, Spectacular #101-102, and Web of #1-2. Sounds like Spidey was a busy boy around then.