Has anyone chewed on this problem yet?
The time-jumping scenes in Captain America; Reborn create a paradox that I'm having difficulty explaining away. Specifically: Cap jumps to the Kree/Skrull War and Clint is there, aboard the Skrull ship, as Goliath.
Clint was a member of the team at the time, and we has going by the codename Goliath, allright. But he was never aboard the Skrull ship and he had lost his ability to grow. This is a major plot point: Barton, powerless, is sent by Cap to stop a Skrull ship -- and has to go back to being Hawkeye to get the job done.
It's not just Cap mis-remembering: Cap must be reliving the actual events, as he is able to transmit a message to the future through the Vision.
It can't be an alternate timeline, either, since the Vision is able to retrieve the message in current Earth-616 continuity.
So -- has anyone come up with a consistent explanation for Goliath's presence in these scenes?
Captain America: Reborn
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Re: Captain America: Reborn
I've got two possible explanations. The first is simple- it's an art error.
The second is this- the Avengers first realized that the Skrulls were involved in the Kree-Skrull War in Avengers 93. Clint lost his growing powers in Avengers 94. Maybe there was an untold encounter with a Skrull ship between pages of Avengers 93 or Avengers 94.
The second is this- the Avengers first realized that the Skrulls were involved in the Kree-Skrull War in Avengers 93. Clint lost his growing powers in Avengers 94. Maybe there was an untold encounter with a Skrull ship between pages of Avengers 93 or Avengers 94.
Re: Captain America: Reborn
Also, though I don't have the issue in front of me, so if I make a mistake here, somebody feel free to tweak the details, the scene shows Captain Marvel flying around the space battle, despite the fact that he was captured long before this point, on Earth.
Re: Captain America: Reborn
I browsed through my Kree-Skrull War TPB last night, and the inconsistencies are pretty glaring.
The Avengers don't leave Earth until A96, and it's pretty clear this is their first trip into space. Mar-Vell is not with them -- he's captive on the Skrull ship with Quicksilver and Wanda. Even when Mar-Vell escapes, he's never shown leaving the ship. It's also clear that Clint does not go with Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Vision when they board the Skrull mothership, and when Clint does finally go into action he can't grow anymore. Basically, the Reborn recreation captures the notion of the battle (and the flavor of the Neal Adams artwork), but misses wide on the details.
Here's one possible explanation: The plot has Cap jumping through time, but also meta-commenting on his own experiences as he does so. That is, he's aware that he's reliving events. Later in Reborn, Cap finds himself in a New York City dominated by the Nazis -- this is either an alternate timeline or mental manipulation by the Red Skull. So perhaps what we're seeing throughout Reborn are Cap's somewhat inaccurate and/or manipulated mental impressions, rather than the actual events.
The key event is the moment when Cap gives a message to the Vision to carry into the future. That must have actually happened, since the Vision recalls the message years later. But the scene in Reborn doesn't actually show it happening -- it shows Cap re-experiencing (and possibly reinterpreting) an event that was never previously documented.
The Avengers don't leave Earth until A96, and it's pretty clear this is their first trip into space. Mar-Vell is not with them -- he's captive on the Skrull ship with Quicksilver and Wanda. Even when Mar-Vell escapes, he's never shown leaving the ship. It's also clear that Clint does not go with Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Vision when they board the Skrull mothership, and when Clint does finally go into action he can't grow anymore. Basically, the Reborn recreation captures the notion of the battle (and the flavor of the Neal Adams artwork), but misses wide on the details.
Here's one possible explanation: The plot has Cap jumping through time, but also meta-commenting on his own experiences as he does so. That is, he's aware that he's reliving events. Later in Reborn, Cap finds himself in a New York City dominated by the Nazis -- this is either an alternate timeline or mental manipulation by the Red Skull. So perhaps what we're seeing throughout Reborn are Cap's somewhat inaccurate and/or manipulated mental impressions, rather than the actual events.
The key event is the moment when Cap gives a message to the Vision to carry into the future. That must have actually happened, since the Vision recalls the message years later. But the scene in Reborn doesn't actually show it happening -- it shows Cap re-experiencing (and possibly reinterpreting) an event that was never previously documented.