Appearances in A 277

[Paul Bourcier]

Moonstone's only appearance in A 277 is technically a flashback to two panels in A 276 -- the scene and dialog are exactly the same. The two panels are prefaced by the editorial note, "minutes earlier..." although they aren't presented the way flashbacks usually are. Moonstone's appearance in A 277 should be dropped and considered an "rfb," to use Index-speak.

On the other hand, Hercules actually does make an appearance in A 277. One panel shows him comatose in bed, and although this panel has the rounded corners usually reserved for flashbacks, this panel can be considered as happening at the moment it's presented. Hercules' A 277-BTS listing should be changed to A 277.

[Michael]

I'm not sure if the scene with Hercules counts. The context is Cap yelling at Zemo for having Hercules beaten into a coma in Avengers 274. Cap is basically mad at Zemo and picturing what his goons did to Hercules in his mind.

[Paul Bourcier]

Correction: Moonstone actually does make a bts appearance in A 277 -- paramedics find her with a broken neck, according to the Wasp.

[Paul Bourcier]

Michael wrote:

Cap is basically mad at Zemo and picturing what his goons did to Hercules in his mind.

I look at it differently. I'm seeing it as a reader's eye view of Herc at that moment, included to illustrate Cap's dialog.

[Russ Chappell]

Michael wrote:

Cap is basically mad at Zemo and picturing what his goons did to Hercules in his mind.

I look at it differently. I'm seeing it as a reader's eye view of Herc at that moment, included to illustrate Cap's dialog.

But to see it that way requires ignoring the editorial intent (the rounded panels).

[Paul Bourcier]

Are rounded panels understood as thought panels that do not show actual events? If this is universally the case, I'll defer to that view. However, in that same issue, standard convention for noting flashbacks is ignored in the flashback scenes to the previous issue.

[Russ Chappell]

I'm not clear on how flashbacks play into the discussion, since no one here (you, Michael, of the current MCP listings) are contending the scene with Hercules is a flashback.

I'm not contending that rounded panel corners always, universally, without exception mean the scene didn't occur. For the record, it's my interpretation that, in this case, the creators intended for that panel to be symbolic. When Peter Parker imagines Gwen having sex with Norman Osborn, it doesn't mean that scene actually occurs as portrayed.

I'm just pointing out that you seem to be saying that rounded panel corners don't mean anything.

[captamr]

To continue my thoughts from A 273, here again we have an illustrative panel generally explaining the narrative without referencing any specific moment in time. In this issue, we have the same writer, artists, and editor as A 273, as well as the "rounded corners". The scene of the comatose Hercules is well established at this point of the story with no need for a FB, simply to illustrate Cap's dialog.

Even if we considered this a FB, it has been shown before. The BTS seems to work well here.

On another note, these may be some of the best Avengers issues to enjoy even with all the chronology problems associated with the Mutant Massacre.

[Paul Bourcier]

Okay, bts it is. I just figured assigning Herc an actual appearance in that issue would recognize the fact that he isn't off-panel, but is in fact, depicted (and in a way that's consistent with what's going on at that very time).