Flashback in WOSM2 9

[Paul Bourcier]

On pages 1-2 of last week's WEB OF SPIDER-MAN v2 #9, Mrs. Smithson brings her son Tyler to the "Xavier Institute for Higher Learning," hoping that Charles Xavier will reconsider his denial of Tyler's application for the school, convinced of her son's special aptitudes and abilities. Xavier, with Slim Summers present, tells Mrs. Smithson her son does not qualify for the school's program. Xavier tells Scott that Cerebro detected no mutant status for Tyler.

So where should this go? Somewhere early in X-Men history, after Cerebro is known to Scott. Scott isn't necessarily the only student at the school, although he's the only one we see. And what's up with the name of the school -- not "Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters?" Any specific ideas for placement?

[Somebody]

The X-Mansion becomes the Xavier Institute for Higher Learning in X 39 or so, when the "School for Gifted Youngsters" name transfers to the Mass. Academy (i.e., Generation X). It retains that name even after the XSfGY shuts down and it takes in a load of students during the Morrison era.

[Michael]

Unfortunately certain writers seem to forget that it used to be called the School for Gifted Youngsters. In X-Men:Legacy 222, the flashback with Rogue and Beast apparently is supposed to take place sometime between X-Men/ Alpha Flight 1 and X-Factor 1 but it's referred to as the Xavier Academy. I'm not sure if we should assume this flashback takes place after X 39.
The major objection I have with placing this flashback after X 39 is that Tyler seems too much older in the main story than the flashback for the flashback to have taken place after X 39. (There's also the fact that Xavier had gotten burned too many times by X 39 by ignoring people who didn't scan as mutants at first but who didn't scan like most normal people- the Falcon, Madelyne Pryor,etc., so it would be stupid of him and Scott to ignore the kid. Then again, it wouldn't be the stupidest thing Scott and Charles have ever done.)

[Paul Bourcier]

It really does appear that this flashback occurs during the X-Men's early years, with Scott still looking a bit "Slim." I really think the sign at the gate is an error and that it should read "Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters."

[JephYork]

I originally made this comment in my big "what's missing from the X-Men Index?" thread, but that one's getting cluttered and I think it's more appropriate here...

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I'm completely at a loss as to where to place this X-Men flashback. The school is starting a "spring term", Cyclops is there and dressed like this takes place in the Silver Age -- but somehow the fact that it's a school for mutants is public knowledge ... or at least, public *enough* that Mrs. Smithson knows about it and wants to send her son there.

I'd disregard the Silver-Agey clothing on Scott and place this near New X-Men #114, where the school IS going public and starting a semester ... except that I don't know if Tyler has enough time to grow up from teenager to whatever-he-is now in the small amount of time between X #114 and now.
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Hmm. I didn't notice the "Institute" sign at first, either. Between that and Mrs. Smithson knowing about the school, I'm starting to think that going a little more forward in time is the way to go here.

At what point was Xavier's school even vaguely public knowledge?

-Jeph!

[Michael]

We don't know that the school is PUBLIC in the flashback- all we know is Mrs. Smithson found out somehow. Boom Boom found out about the school through word-of-mouth during Secret Wars II,so other people might have also found out through word-of-mouth.

[JephYork]

Meh. By the time the school changes its name to the Institute, Cyclops is married and buff, and Xavier is in a hoverchair. Never mind, let's stick to earlier timeframes.

We don't know that the school is PUBLIC in the flashback- all we know is Mrs. Smithson found out somehow.

That's ... what I said. Public enough that Mrs. Smithson knows about it.

Prof. X zealously guarded the school in the Silver Age, mindwiping whole towns and erasing memories left and right to keep it that way. But okay, so by circa SWII it was an open secret, huh? Well, let's use that as a starting point...

SWII was UX #196-203. Prof. X left for outer space in UX #200, so before then. He was "dead" between UX #42-65, so not then. Cyclops got married and left in UXM #175, so not between that and #200. But really -- any other time is good.

I'd rule out UX #1-19, as Prof. X was still mindwiping people by the cartload, including Mimic. But in #29, he let the Mimic leave while in possession of their secrets, even though he was only semi-reformed at that point. So maybe the mid-20s is a good starting point?

UX #25-ish to #41, or #67-174. And the later the better, so the school has more time to become an open secret.

Hmm -- that's a hell of a range. Any thoughts, anyone?

-Jeph!

[JephYork]

During UX #8-66, Xavier's not teaching any high-school-level classes. The X-Men have moved on to "post-graduate work". So the notion that he's teaching a "spring semester" doesn't work. What about during the All-New, All-Different period? After Kitty and the New Mutants come on board? Then he's back to teaching high school...

That narrows the range considerably, from UX #167 to 174. Aaaaand, from #168-174, Cyclops is away from the team and busily falling for Maddy. So -- between UX #167-168.

Between those two issues, we've got:

COC 1-3
UX@ 6
H2 278
M/TIO@ 7
M/TIO 96
SEX 1

But, given that in this fb, Prof. X says he's "just starting" a new term, we should place it as early as possible in there. UX #167 takes place between NM #3-4. If this fb took place *right* after UX #167, then Xavier would, indeed, have very recently started his new semester.

So -- does that work for everyone? Right after UX #167?

-Jeph!

[Paul Bourcier]

FWIW, using the Olshevsky calendar (not that!), I believe that placing the FB right after UX 167 would mean the beginning of a summer semester at Xavier's. And the classes we see at Bard College shortly thereafter in UX@ 6 would have to be summer classes.

[Jason Doty]

Why place this flashback so far forward in time. The sign on the school is the clear mistake and easily ignored. Why would'nt this woman go to Xavier just because he's an expert in his field, and then he tell her, "sorry your son is not exceptable for my program." While the school's a secret. Xavier is still a public figure in his field. It seems to fit into the Silver Age.

[JephYork]

It really doesn't. I just finished re-reading every Silver Age story, and Prof. X is consistently and extremely overzealous in protecting the fact that his school educates mutants.

And, the placement I suggested DOES ignore the sign.

-Jeph!

[Jason Doty]

Well rather than the New Mutants class, why not attribute it to the Deadly Genesis students, that Moira was recruiting. Scotts still at least young as portrayed.

[JephYork]

......Xavier had nothing to do with the Deadly Genesis students. They were never at the mansion. And they were even more secret than the regular X-Men -- only Xavier, Scott and Moira knew about them.

-Jeph!

[Jason Doty]

I was implying that it was possible for the "school" to be an open secret, and Xavier to be refering to an upcoming semester in his "program" I'm sure he was working with Moira and she was in New York at the time. When they were originaly recruited they wern't going to be X-Men, he only recruited them after the X-Men disappeared and he and Cyclops were the only ones in the flashback. I'm just thinking that with the help of Moira at the time he was going to start training students again and not for being X-Men, and they would be a bit younger for Highschool.

[JephYork]

Jason, quite frankly I'm having a hard time figuring out what the heck you're talking about here. It took me about 3-4 readings to get what you meant. You may want to invest in some punctuation and paragraph stops.

What "program" are you referring to? What "program" does Prof. X teach? Why are "program" and "school" in quotes?

You seem to want to assume that Prof. X was about to start teaching the Deadly Genesis kids -- is that right? You want to assume that, even though the group was *even more secret than the X-Men*, so secret that Prof. X was hiding their existence from the other X-Men, he was ALSO somehow about to start teaching them high-school classes at his mansion.

(Note also that, in this flashback, the kid's mother has been applying for quite some time. Which implies that this occurs during a time when Prof. X *has been teaching high school for a while* -- not a timeframe when he's *thinking about starting to teach soon*. If he wasn't teaching at all when she first applied, he could have easily turned her away with "sorry, I don't teach high school.")

Also, this is the timeframe where the X-Mansion is still such a closely-guarded secret that *even the Avengers don't know where it is*. In A #110, when Magneto alerts the Avengers that he's captured the X-Men, and shows them a picture of Prof. X himself, they still have to search for hours to find a mansion that matches the video they saw.

This is the timeframe in which you want to assume that Xavier's mutant school is an "open secret".

And you want to assume both of these things because Cyclops is ... wearing a bow tie in this flashback.

Currently, I've found a spot where Prof. X *is* teaching high school (no need to assume that he was about to start) ... I've found a spot where he's been teaching high school for a little while, yet is close to the beginning of a traditional semester ... I've found a spot where Prof. X and Cyclops were at the mansion and available to appear ... and I've found a spot that's chronologically closer to the first few PROVABLE instances of Xavier's school being an open secret.

And you'd rather wedge a really awkward placement by making a bunch of assumptions that the books don't warrant ... because of a bow tie?

Does anyone else have any opinions on this?

-Jeph!