I'm looking through the Scarlet Spider's chronology, and I have a question -- why are Spider-Man Team-Up #4 and Spider-Man Unlimited #12-13 placed right in the middle of the "Blood Brothers" story arc? (Between parts 4-5; Spec #234 & Sensational #5, to be exact.)
Unlimited #12 *was* published between those two issues, and I see that a footnote places it at least after ASM #411 ("Blood Brothers" part 2) -- but it seems odd to break up an ongoing arc.
Unlimited #13 was published three full months later -- after Spec #237 -- so I'm confused why it's placed way back here. There doesn't appear to be any Spidey-related reason that I can see; there are no footnotes or obvious placement clues to justify pulling it three months out of synch. Does it have to do with Power Man/Iron Fist's appearances?
Spider-Man Team-Up #3 appears to be *missing* from Scarlet's chronology; it was published the same month that "Blood Brothers" wrapped up, but may need to be shifted around because of guest-stars the FF's chronology concerns.
Spider-Man Team-Up #4 was published four months after the bulk of Blood Brothers; same month as Spec #238. What's it doing right after #234? Does it have something to do with guest-stars the Avengers' chronologies?
Also, Spider-Man Team-Up #5 and Spider-Man Unlimited #14 seem a bit early to me too. They were both published the same month as the Clone Saga's finale, "Revelations", and I don't see any placement clues in them -- so I'd assume they go right before the "Revelations" crossover begins. Yet they're chronologized in with books from three months prior to that arc.
Can anyone shed any light on why these books were placed where they are? Are there clues that I'm overlooking, or is this a possible MCP error? Thanks in advance!
(Here's the chronology in question...)
SENSM 4 (Blood Brothers part 1)
ASM 411 (Blood Brothers part 2)
S-M 68 (Blood Brothers part 3)
PPTSS 234 (Blood Brothers part 4)
SMTU 4 (where's #3?)
ASMU 12
ASMU 13
SENSM 5 (Blood Brothers part 5)
ASM 412 (Blood Brothers part 6)
S-M 69
SENSM 6
DD 354
PPTSS 235
A 400
ASM 413-FB
ASM 413
PPTSS 235
S-M 70
PPTSS 236
SM:R 1
SM:R 2
SM:R 3
SM:R 4
SENSM 7
ASMU 14
ASM 414
S-M 71
PPTSS 237
PPTSS 239-FB
SMTU 5
SMTU 5/2
SENSM 8
ASM 415
FF 416-FB
S-M 72
ASM 416
GG 13
SENSM 9
SENSM 10
UX 339
S-M 73
S-M 74
PPTSS 238
PPTSS 239-FB
PPTSS 238
PPTSS 239
ASM 417
PPTSS 240 (Revelations part 1)
SENSM 11 (Revelations part 2)
ASM 418 (Revelations part 3)
SM:REVELATIONS-FB
S-M 75 (Revelations part 4)
SM:REVELATIONS
S-M 75
-Jeph!
Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
Moderators: Col_Fury, michel, Arthur, Somebody, StrayLamb
Re: Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
Bump. I could really use some insight on this -- it's for a Marvel project that has a Thursday due date.
-Jeph!
-Jeph!
Re: Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
Well, thanks for all the responses. 
I re-read the entire "Ben Reilly era" (from Spectacular #229 up through Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75) in an effort to make some sense of this myself -- and it's a good thing I did, because the MCP's chronology for that period is WAY out of whack.
Here are my findings -- and you may want to have Ben's chronology open in a different tab to follow along as I go.
The "Super Special" flipbook stories, where Ben fights the Lizard (or, I should say, *a* Lizard), occur after Ben learns that he's the real Peter. You have them placed RIGHT after that revelation -- between Spec #226 and the "Maximum Clonage" arc -- but Maximum Clonage begins immediately after Spec #226. The same day. There's no room for the Super Specials between them ... they need to be shifted down to after NW #62, which is the immediate aftermath of Max Clonage.
You have the Super Special MAIN stories occuring after the "Exiled" arc (Unlimited #10). But those stories occur during a time when Ben thinks he's the clone, not the original. They need to be moved back, believe it or not, all the way up to just before ASM #400. In ASM #400, Peter gets arrested, and by the time he's finally cleared and released, he learns that he's a clone *that same day* -- so there's no room. If Peter's free and believes he's the original, it needs to be before ASM #400.
Spider-Man Team-Up #1 is missing. It seems to occur between Spidey #63 and Spec #229 -- during a time when Peter has already decided to quit being Spidey, but before he actually stops. He announces his decision and claims that he's already hung up the costume in #229 -- and since, in Spidey #63, he swings off to make that decision, Team-Up #1 should go between the two.
You have Scarlet Spider Unlimited #1 placed before the "Virtual Mortality" arc kicking off in Web of Scarlet Spider #1 -- and while that's fine, I personally placed it closer to publication order, between parts 1-2 of the "Cyberwar" storyline -- Web of Scarlet Spider #2 and Amazing Scarlet Spider #2. Web #2 occurs the next day after "Virtual Mortality", but ASS #2 refers to Virtual Mortality as "recent" ... so there's a small time gap there.
I'm not entirely clear why you spliced a huge gap into New Warriors #64, and dumped a lot of Scarlet Spider issues into it. Regardless, NW #64-66 need to occur *before* Dr. Octopus II starts to ruin Scarlet's reputation in Scarlet Spider #2, with a solid hologram that goes on a rampage -- because we learn in Web of Scarlet Spider #3 that the Warriors believe her smear campaign, and are angry at Scarlet. Yet they never mention it in #64-66 ... they fight side by side with him as if everything's okay. So those issues need to be moved back. I have all of NW #64 occuring at once (in the same place you currently have the first portion), NW #65 occuring before Web of Scarlet Spider #1 (publishing order), and NW #66 occuring in the gap between Amazing Scarlet Spider #2 and Scarlet Spider #2. (Right after Green Goblin #3.)
The Spider-Man Wizard mini-comic is missing. It's a short story where Ben thinks back on his past and looks forward to his new future as Spidey. As such, it goes between Spectacular Scarlet Spider #2, where he decides to become Spidey, and Sensational #0, where he does so. (The cover gives its name as "Wizard Mini-Comic #3: Sensational Spider-Man"; the indicia just says "Spider-Man".)
"Final Adventure" #1 occurs shortly before ASM #407, as Spidey's appearance in Portland is rumored but not confirmed. (Final Adv #2 confirms him there with a photo.) However, there's no character overlap that I'm aware of, so I don't think this observation matters. There's a week gap between Final Adv #1-2, by the way.
You have Final Adv #2-4 occuring before Spider-Man #64 -- based, I assume, on the scene in #2 where the new Spidey is front-page Bugle news, implying that this is the first time they have confirmation that he exists. (And Ben is all over the TV news in Spider-Man #64.) However, in Final Adv #3-4, Ben visits MJ and gets an update on how she and Peter are doing. And in the Spider-Man Holiday Special, Ben says to the Human Torch that Peter and MJ moved away, but he doesn't know if they're settled yet. This implies he hasn't spoken to them since they moved away -- placing Final Adventure #3-4 (and by extension, #2) *after* the Holiday Special.
Now, the Holiday Special occurs on Christmas, with a snow-covered NYC. The "Media Blizzard" arc (Sensational #1, ASM #408, Spidey #65) occurs during "Christmas break", where a blizzard hits. And "Spider-Man/Punisher: Family Plot" #1-2 says that "Christmas is coming" but no snow is seen.
Your order is currently Final Adv -> (stuff) -> Media Blizzard -> (stuff) -> Holiday Special -> Family Plot. That should be more or less reversed -- Family Plot, where Christmas is "coming," should come first, then the blizzard over Christmas break, then the snowy Christmas where Ben doesn't know if Peter's settled, then Final Adv where Ben visits MJ.
Unlim #11 correctly comes (and should stay) after Final Adv #4 -- in Final Adv #3-4, Ken Ellis is trying to get his Havershaw murder story on the front page of the Bugle. In Unlim #11, he does so.
Venom: Along Came a Spider #1-4 are correctly placed before Spidey becomes wanted by the police for stealing his clone skeleton (a storyline starting in Spec #231). However, I've moved them down a bit -- there's no real room between "Media Blizzard" and the Holiday Special. ("Christmas break" usually begins very shortly before Christmas, leaving not a lot of room before Christmas itself -- and the absence of snow in the Venom mini means it's probably not between the blizzard and the snowy Christmas in the Holiday Special.)
You have Spider-Man Team-Up #2 placed just before Ben learns that Peter and MJ have returned to New York in Spec #232 -- which is good, since Ben's dialogue in that issue states that they're still in Portland. But might that issue work better when they actually ARE in Portland? As in, before Spec #231? (They return to NYC in Spidey #66, the end of the "Return of Kaine" arc.)
Midway through "Blood Brothers", you have Team-Up #4 and Unlim #12-13 -- the reason I started this thread. Well, it turns out that those placements aren't right. Unlim #12 wraps up the "skeleton" plot, and occurs after ASM #411 (Blood Brothers part 2), as it references Ben's burgled apartment. Also, Spidey #69, the first issue after Blood Brothers, references Unlim #12 -- so it needs to go before that. But why break up the Blood Brothers arc? Unlim #12 works better just after Blood Brothers wraps -- between ASM #412 and Spidey #69.
Unlim #13 wraps up the "kidnapped Jonah" subplot that ran through Sensational #7 and Spec #237 -- so it's WAY out of sequence up here, and needs to be moved down to after Spec #237.
Team-Up #4 has the immediately-pre-Onslaught Avengers lineup, and can occur anywhere up to before Sensational #8, the first Spidey Onslaught crossover -- which is also just after Spec #237. Having Team-Up #4 in its current spot places it *before Team-Up #3*, which is weird -- so I kept with its publication order, and moved Team-Up #4 down to the post-Spec #237 gap along with Unlim #13.
Speaking of Team-Up #3 -- it's missing as well. The FF's appearance (an unshaven Reed, Sue without her forcefields) places this between FF #412-413, which syncs with FF publication order. I've placed it after Spidey #69 based purely on Spidey publication order, but it could be moved around in that general area -- although it needs to stay prior to ASM #413, where Spidey knows that Reed Richards is alive (he discovers that fact in Team-Up #3).
In Daredevil #354, Spidey's returning home from a battle with Mysterio -- a reference to ASM #413, which came out the same month. Yet you have it before ASM #413. It needs to be moved down to just afterwards.
You split a gap in Spec #235, which is good -- but you've placed Spidey #70 between the *end* of that issue and the beginning of Spec #236, which is bad. #235 cliffhangs right into #236, so there's no room there. Spidey #70 needs to go in the gap in #235 -- between p.15, where Peter feels a pain in his arm, and p.16, where Spidey shows up to the battle that cliffhangs the issue. (Peter collapses in Spidey #70 and an ambulance is called -- he arrives there in Spec #236.)
Also, I guess the rationale for placing ASM #413 into the gap in #235 is because Peter has another pain in #235, and in ASM #413 he realizes that his pains are serious. I ... guess that makes sense -- but the gap in #235 is only about twelve hours (morning to evening of the same day), and there may not be enough room for ASM #413 *and* DD #354. We may want to consider moving them out of that gap, to before Spec #235 -- after all, he could realize that his pains are serious (ASM #413) and then have another (Spec #235).
Speaking of appearances in that gap, I see Avengers #400 in there too. Given that, for the Avengers, Av #400 leads right into the Onslaught crossover, it would make sense to move Spidey's brief appearance there down to just before Spec #8, the first Spidey Onslaught crossover.
Spider-Man: Redemption #1 occurs over "weeks", when Ben doesn't seem concerned with much of anything else (because he's in love with Janine again). Right now it's placed between the time Peter's rushed to the hospital and the time he "dies". There aren't "weeks" there -- Peter's admitted and deteriorates rapidly -- and Ben is worried sick during that time. A better place for the entire Redemption mini is just after Sensational #6, when Ben's relationship with Jessica ends -- and before ASM #413/Spec #235, when Peter's pains return and he realizes that they're serious.
Unlim #14 is placed between Sensational #7 and ASM #414, when Peter's hospitalized. But Peter is up and about in Unlim #14, and in fact he references his layoff by the Bugle -- placing it after ASM #416, where they lay him off. I placed it after #417, in fact, to better adhere to publication order (the issue was published in the middle of the "Revelations" crossover that killed off Ben).
Spider-Man Team-Up #5 is placed just before Sensational #8. But again, Peter's in the hospital at that time -- he doesn't get released until the day Onslaught attacks (ASM #415). As with Unlim #14, I placed this just before the "Revelations" crossover to adhere to publication order. (This issue actually hit stands *after* Ben's death in Spidey #75.)
Sensational #9-10 are placed after ASM #416. But in Sensational #9, Peter learns that his baby's a girl, and in ASM #416 he already knows that. So Sensational #9-10 (a two-parter) have to come first.
ASM Annual '96 is missing. Publication-wise, it should come right after ASM #416.
I have Spec #238-239 occuring before Spidey #73-74, not after -- just because that's the order they were published in, and I didn't see any clues to oppose it.
And finally, Peter scatters Ben's ashes in the all-new epilogue in the "Revelations" TPB -- granting him a bts in that scene, which occurs after Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75.
So, with all that in mind, here's the way Ben's chronology SHOULD go:
Parentheses and italics mean an issue's been deleted from that spot, bold means an issue's been moved TO that spot.
S-MSS 1
VSS 1
PPTSSSS 1
WOSMSS 1
ASM 400
S-M 57
PPTSS 223
WOSM 124
ASM 401
S-M 58
PPTSS 224
ASMU 9
WOSM 125
PPTSS 225
WOSM 126
ASM 403
S-M 60
PPTSS 226
(ASMSS 1/3)
(S-MSS 1/3)
(VSS 1/3)
(PPTSSSS 1/3)
(WOSMSS 1/3)
MC:A
ASM 404
S-M 61
PPTSS 227
MC:O
NW 62
ASMSS 1/3
S-MSS 1/3
VSS 1/3
PPTSSSS 1/3
WOSMSS 1/3
WOSM 128
ASM 405
S-M 62
ASMU 10
(S-MSS 1)
(VSS 1)
(PPTSSSS 1)
(WOSMSS 1)
WOSM 129
NW 63
NW 64
NW 64 ~ NW 59 - gap in issue eliminated
ASM 406
S-M 63
SMTU 1 - added
PPTSS 229
(SSU 1)
NW 65
WOSS 1
ASS 1
SCARSPI 1
SSCARSPI 1
WOSS 2
SSU 1
ASS 2
GG 3
NW 66
SCARSPI 2
SSCARSPI 2
(NW 64 ~ NW 59)
(NW 65)
(NW 66)
Spider-Man Wizard mini-comic - added
SENSM 0
DCVM 1
DCVM 2
DCVM 3
DCVM 4
SENSM 0
ASM 407
NW 67
WOSS 4
(SM:FA 3)
(SM:FA 4)
(ASMU 11)
S-M 64
PPTSS 230
SM/P:FP 1
SM/P:FP 2
SENSM 1
ASM 408
S-M 65
SMHS 1995
SMHS 1995/5
SM:FA 3
SM:FA 4
ASMU 11
ULTRAF2 2/2
ULTRAF/SM 1A=ULTRAF/SM 1B
ULTRAF/SM 1B
ULTRAF/SM 1A=ULTRAF/SM 1B
V:ACS 1
V:ACS 2
V:ACS 3
V:ACS 4
(SMHS 1995)
(SMHS 1995/5)
(SM/P:FP 1)
(SM/P:FP 2)
SMTU 2
PPTSS 231
SENSM 2
ASM 409
S-M 66
V:HUNTED 1
(SMTU 2)
PPTSS 232
SENSM 3-FB
SENSM 3
ASM 410
S-M 67
PPTSS 233
NW 70
NW 71
SENSM 4
ASM 411
S-M 68
PPTSS 234
(SMTU 4)
(ASMU 12)
(ASMU 13)
SENSM 5
ASM 412
ASMU 12
S-M 69
SMTU 3 - added
SENSM 6
SM:R 1
SM:R 2
SM:R 3
SM:R 4
(DD 354)
PPTSS 235 (pp.1-15)
(A 400)
ASM 413-FB
ASM 413
DD 354
S-M 70
PPTSS 235 (pp.16-32)
(S-M 70)
PPTSS 236
(SM:R 1)
(SM:R 2)
(SM:R 3)
(SM:R 4)
SENSM 7
(ASMU 14)
ASM 414
S-M 71
PPTSS 237
ASMU 13
SMTU 4
PPTSS 239-FB
(SMTU 5)
(SMTU 5/2)
A 400
SENSM 8
ASM 415
FF 416-FB
S-M 72
SENSM 9
SENSM 10
ASM 416
ASM '96 - added
GG 13
(SENSM 9)
(SENSM 10)
UX 339
(S-M 73)
(S-M 74)
PPTSS 238
PPTSS 239-FB
PPTSS 238
PPTSS 239
S-M 73
S-M 74
ASM 417
ASMU 14
SMTU 5
SMTU 5/2
PPTSS 240
SENSM 11
ASM 418
SM:REVELATIONS-FB
S-M 75
SM:REVELATIONS
S-M 75
SM:REVELATIONS - bts - added
-Jeph!
I re-read the entire "Ben Reilly era" (from Spectacular #229 up through Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75) in an effort to make some sense of this myself -- and it's a good thing I did, because the MCP's chronology for that period is WAY out of whack.Here are my findings -- and you may want to have Ben's chronology open in a different tab to follow along as I go.
The "Super Special" flipbook stories, where Ben fights the Lizard (or, I should say, *a* Lizard), occur after Ben learns that he's the real Peter. You have them placed RIGHT after that revelation -- between Spec #226 and the "Maximum Clonage" arc -- but Maximum Clonage begins immediately after Spec #226. The same day. There's no room for the Super Specials between them ... they need to be shifted down to after NW #62, which is the immediate aftermath of Max Clonage.
You have the Super Special MAIN stories occuring after the "Exiled" arc (Unlimited #10). But those stories occur during a time when Ben thinks he's the clone, not the original. They need to be moved back, believe it or not, all the way up to just before ASM #400. In ASM #400, Peter gets arrested, and by the time he's finally cleared and released, he learns that he's a clone *that same day* -- so there's no room. If Peter's free and believes he's the original, it needs to be before ASM #400.
Spider-Man Team-Up #1 is missing. It seems to occur between Spidey #63 and Spec #229 -- during a time when Peter has already decided to quit being Spidey, but before he actually stops. He announces his decision and claims that he's already hung up the costume in #229 -- and since, in Spidey #63, he swings off to make that decision, Team-Up #1 should go between the two.
You have Scarlet Spider Unlimited #1 placed before the "Virtual Mortality" arc kicking off in Web of Scarlet Spider #1 -- and while that's fine, I personally placed it closer to publication order, between parts 1-2 of the "Cyberwar" storyline -- Web of Scarlet Spider #2 and Amazing Scarlet Spider #2. Web #2 occurs the next day after "Virtual Mortality", but ASS #2 refers to Virtual Mortality as "recent" ... so there's a small time gap there.
I'm not entirely clear why you spliced a huge gap into New Warriors #64, and dumped a lot of Scarlet Spider issues into it. Regardless, NW #64-66 need to occur *before* Dr. Octopus II starts to ruin Scarlet's reputation in Scarlet Spider #2, with a solid hologram that goes on a rampage -- because we learn in Web of Scarlet Spider #3 that the Warriors believe her smear campaign, and are angry at Scarlet. Yet they never mention it in #64-66 ... they fight side by side with him as if everything's okay. So those issues need to be moved back. I have all of NW #64 occuring at once (in the same place you currently have the first portion), NW #65 occuring before Web of Scarlet Spider #1 (publishing order), and NW #66 occuring in the gap between Amazing Scarlet Spider #2 and Scarlet Spider #2. (Right after Green Goblin #3.)
The Spider-Man Wizard mini-comic is missing. It's a short story where Ben thinks back on his past and looks forward to his new future as Spidey. As such, it goes between Spectacular Scarlet Spider #2, where he decides to become Spidey, and Sensational #0, where he does so. (The cover gives its name as "Wizard Mini-Comic #3: Sensational Spider-Man"; the indicia just says "Spider-Man".)
"Final Adventure" #1 occurs shortly before ASM #407, as Spidey's appearance in Portland is rumored but not confirmed. (Final Adv #2 confirms him there with a photo.) However, there's no character overlap that I'm aware of, so I don't think this observation matters. There's a week gap between Final Adv #1-2, by the way.
You have Final Adv #2-4 occuring before Spider-Man #64 -- based, I assume, on the scene in #2 where the new Spidey is front-page Bugle news, implying that this is the first time they have confirmation that he exists. (And Ben is all over the TV news in Spider-Man #64.) However, in Final Adv #3-4, Ben visits MJ and gets an update on how she and Peter are doing. And in the Spider-Man Holiday Special, Ben says to the Human Torch that Peter and MJ moved away, but he doesn't know if they're settled yet. This implies he hasn't spoken to them since they moved away -- placing Final Adventure #3-4 (and by extension, #2) *after* the Holiday Special.
Now, the Holiday Special occurs on Christmas, with a snow-covered NYC. The "Media Blizzard" arc (Sensational #1, ASM #408, Spidey #65) occurs during "Christmas break", where a blizzard hits. And "Spider-Man/Punisher: Family Plot" #1-2 says that "Christmas is coming" but no snow is seen.
Your order is currently Final Adv -> (stuff) -> Media Blizzard -> (stuff) -> Holiday Special -> Family Plot. That should be more or less reversed -- Family Plot, where Christmas is "coming," should come first, then the blizzard over Christmas break, then the snowy Christmas where Ben doesn't know if Peter's settled, then Final Adv where Ben visits MJ.
Unlim #11 correctly comes (and should stay) after Final Adv #4 -- in Final Adv #3-4, Ken Ellis is trying to get his Havershaw murder story on the front page of the Bugle. In Unlim #11, he does so.
Venom: Along Came a Spider #1-4 are correctly placed before Spidey becomes wanted by the police for stealing his clone skeleton (a storyline starting in Spec #231). However, I've moved them down a bit -- there's no real room between "Media Blizzard" and the Holiday Special. ("Christmas break" usually begins very shortly before Christmas, leaving not a lot of room before Christmas itself -- and the absence of snow in the Venom mini means it's probably not between the blizzard and the snowy Christmas in the Holiday Special.)
You have Spider-Man Team-Up #2 placed just before Ben learns that Peter and MJ have returned to New York in Spec #232 -- which is good, since Ben's dialogue in that issue states that they're still in Portland. But might that issue work better when they actually ARE in Portland? As in, before Spec #231? (They return to NYC in Spidey #66, the end of the "Return of Kaine" arc.)
Midway through "Blood Brothers", you have Team-Up #4 and Unlim #12-13 -- the reason I started this thread. Well, it turns out that those placements aren't right. Unlim #12 wraps up the "skeleton" plot, and occurs after ASM #411 (Blood Brothers part 2), as it references Ben's burgled apartment. Also, Spidey #69, the first issue after Blood Brothers, references Unlim #12 -- so it needs to go before that. But why break up the Blood Brothers arc? Unlim #12 works better just after Blood Brothers wraps -- between ASM #412 and Spidey #69.
Unlim #13 wraps up the "kidnapped Jonah" subplot that ran through Sensational #7 and Spec #237 -- so it's WAY out of sequence up here, and needs to be moved down to after Spec #237.
Team-Up #4 has the immediately-pre-Onslaught Avengers lineup, and can occur anywhere up to before Sensational #8, the first Spidey Onslaught crossover -- which is also just after Spec #237. Having Team-Up #4 in its current spot places it *before Team-Up #3*, which is weird -- so I kept with its publication order, and moved Team-Up #4 down to the post-Spec #237 gap along with Unlim #13.
Speaking of Team-Up #3 -- it's missing as well. The FF's appearance (an unshaven Reed, Sue without her forcefields) places this between FF #412-413, which syncs with FF publication order. I've placed it after Spidey #69 based purely on Spidey publication order, but it could be moved around in that general area -- although it needs to stay prior to ASM #413, where Spidey knows that Reed Richards is alive (he discovers that fact in Team-Up #3).
In Daredevil #354, Spidey's returning home from a battle with Mysterio -- a reference to ASM #413, which came out the same month. Yet you have it before ASM #413. It needs to be moved down to just afterwards.
You split a gap in Spec #235, which is good -- but you've placed Spidey #70 between the *end* of that issue and the beginning of Spec #236, which is bad. #235 cliffhangs right into #236, so there's no room there. Spidey #70 needs to go in the gap in #235 -- between p.15, where Peter feels a pain in his arm, and p.16, where Spidey shows up to the battle that cliffhangs the issue. (Peter collapses in Spidey #70 and an ambulance is called -- he arrives there in Spec #236.)
Also, I guess the rationale for placing ASM #413 into the gap in #235 is because Peter has another pain in #235, and in ASM #413 he realizes that his pains are serious. I ... guess that makes sense -- but the gap in #235 is only about twelve hours (morning to evening of the same day), and there may not be enough room for ASM #413 *and* DD #354. We may want to consider moving them out of that gap, to before Spec #235 -- after all, he could realize that his pains are serious (ASM #413) and then have another (Spec #235).
Speaking of appearances in that gap, I see Avengers #400 in there too. Given that, for the Avengers, Av #400 leads right into the Onslaught crossover, it would make sense to move Spidey's brief appearance there down to just before Spec #8, the first Spidey Onslaught crossover.
Spider-Man: Redemption #1 occurs over "weeks", when Ben doesn't seem concerned with much of anything else (because he's in love with Janine again). Right now it's placed between the time Peter's rushed to the hospital and the time he "dies". There aren't "weeks" there -- Peter's admitted and deteriorates rapidly -- and Ben is worried sick during that time. A better place for the entire Redemption mini is just after Sensational #6, when Ben's relationship with Jessica ends -- and before ASM #413/Spec #235, when Peter's pains return and he realizes that they're serious.
Unlim #14 is placed between Sensational #7 and ASM #414, when Peter's hospitalized. But Peter is up and about in Unlim #14, and in fact he references his layoff by the Bugle -- placing it after ASM #416, where they lay him off. I placed it after #417, in fact, to better adhere to publication order (the issue was published in the middle of the "Revelations" crossover that killed off Ben).
Spider-Man Team-Up #5 is placed just before Sensational #8. But again, Peter's in the hospital at that time -- he doesn't get released until the day Onslaught attacks (ASM #415). As with Unlim #14, I placed this just before the "Revelations" crossover to adhere to publication order. (This issue actually hit stands *after* Ben's death in Spidey #75.)
Sensational #9-10 are placed after ASM #416. But in Sensational #9, Peter learns that his baby's a girl, and in ASM #416 he already knows that. So Sensational #9-10 (a two-parter) have to come first.
ASM Annual '96 is missing. Publication-wise, it should come right after ASM #416.
I have Spec #238-239 occuring before Spidey #73-74, not after -- just because that's the order they were published in, and I didn't see any clues to oppose it.
And finally, Peter scatters Ben's ashes in the all-new epilogue in the "Revelations" TPB -- granting him a bts in that scene, which occurs after Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75.
So, with all that in mind, here's the way Ben's chronology SHOULD go:
Parentheses and italics mean an issue's been deleted from that spot, bold means an issue's been moved TO that spot.
S-MSS 1
VSS 1
PPTSSSS 1
WOSMSS 1
ASM 400
S-M 57
PPTSS 223
WOSM 124
ASM 401
S-M 58
PPTSS 224
ASMU 9
WOSM 125
PPTSS 225
WOSM 126
ASM 403
S-M 60
PPTSS 226
(ASMSS 1/3)
(S-MSS 1/3)
(VSS 1/3)
(PPTSSSS 1/3)
(WOSMSS 1/3)
MC:A
ASM 404
S-M 61
PPTSS 227
MC:O
NW 62
ASMSS 1/3
S-MSS 1/3
VSS 1/3
PPTSSSS 1/3
WOSMSS 1/3
WOSM 128
ASM 405
S-M 62
ASMU 10
(S-MSS 1)
(VSS 1)
(PPTSSSS 1)
(WOSMSS 1)
WOSM 129
NW 63
NW 64
NW 64 ~ NW 59 - gap in issue eliminated
ASM 406
S-M 63
SMTU 1 - added
PPTSS 229
(SSU 1)
NW 65
WOSS 1
ASS 1
SCARSPI 1
SSCARSPI 1
WOSS 2
SSU 1
ASS 2
GG 3
NW 66
SCARSPI 2
SSCARSPI 2
(NW 64 ~ NW 59)
(NW 65)
(NW 66)
Spider-Man Wizard mini-comic - added
SENSM 0
DCVM 1
DCVM 2
DCVM 3
DCVM 4
SENSM 0
ASM 407
NW 67
WOSS 4
(SM:FA 3)
(SM:FA 4)
(ASMU 11)
S-M 64
PPTSS 230
SM/P:FP 1
SM/P:FP 2
SENSM 1
ASM 408
S-M 65
SMHS 1995
SMHS 1995/5
SM:FA 3
SM:FA 4
ASMU 11
ULTRAF2 2/2
ULTRAF/SM 1A=ULTRAF/SM 1B
ULTRAF/SM 1B
ULTRAF/SM 1A=ULTRAF/SM 1B
V:ACS 1
V:ACS 2
V:ACS 3
V:ACS 4
(SMHS 1995)
(SMHS 1995/5)
(SM/P:FP 1)
(SM/P:FP 2)
SMTU 2
PPTSS 231
SENSM 2
ASM 409
S-M 66
V:HUNTED 1
(SMTU 2)
PPTSS 232
SENSM 3-FB
SENSM 3
ASM 410
S-M 67
PPTSS 233
NW 70
NW 71
SENSM 4
ASM 411
S-M 68
PPTSS 234
(SMTU 4)
(ASMU 12)
(ASMU 13)
SENSM 5
ASM 412
ASMU 12
S-M 69
SMTU 3 - added
SENSM 6
SM:R 1
SM:R 2
SM:R 3
SM:R 4
(DD 354)
PPTSS 235 (pp.1-15)
(A 400)
ASM 413-FB
ASM 413
DD 354
S-M 70
PPTSS 235 (pp.16-32)
(S-M 70)
PPTSS 236
(SM:R 1)
(SM:R 2)
(SM:R 3)
(SM:R 4)
SENSM 7
(ASMU 14)
ASM 414
S-M 71
PPTSS 237
ASMU 13
SMTU 4
PPTSS 239-FB
(SMTU 5)
(SMTU 5/2)
A 400
SENSM 8
ASM 415
FF 416-FB
S-M 72
SENSM 9
SENSM 10
ASM 416
ASM '96 - added
GG 13
(SENSM 9)
(SENSM 10)
UX 339
(S-M 73)
(S-M 74)
PPTSS 238
PPTSS 239-FB
PPTSS 238
PPTSS 239
S-M 73
S-M 74
ASM 417
ASMU 14
SMTU 5
SMTU 5/2
PPTSS 240
SENSM 11
ASM 418
SM:REVELATIONS-FB
S-M 75
SM:REVELATIONS
S-M 75
SM:REVELATIONS - bts - added
-Jeph!
Re: Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
I don't think that Maximum Clonage HAS to take place the same day as Spec#226. Obviously it has to happen relatively shortly afterward, but aside from two "today" captions, I can't think of a reason why it has to take place the same day.JephYork wrote:
The "Super Special" flipbook stories, where Ben fights the Lizard (or, I should say, *a* Lizard), occur after Ben learns that he's the real Peter. You have them placed RIGHT after that revelation -- between Spec #226 and the "Maximum Clonage" arc -- but Maximum Clonage begins immediately after Spec #226. The same day. There's no room for the Super Specials between them ... they need to be shifted down to after NW #62, which is the immediate aftermath of Max Clonage.
Re: Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
...the captions aren't good enough by themselves?aside from two "today" captions, I can't think of a reason why it has to take place the same day.
Yes, they COULD be overlooked, if we absolutely *had* to shove a story in there -- but we *don't* absolutely have to, since there's other places that the flipbook stories could go. So instead of overruling evidence for no reason, let's put the flipbook stories in a better slot.
-Jeph!
Re: Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
D'oh. Venom: Along Came A Spider #1-4 appears to be Venom's very next appearance after the "Planet of the Symbiotes" super specials -- he states that he's been in hiding in the deep sewer tunnels, laying low ever since getting back from the symbiote planet. (Not counting, of course, his appearances in DC vs. Marvel -- where he's literally pulled from wherever he is into the DC universe, then returned.)
And Venom appears in the Spider-Man Holiday Special, out in public "three days" before Christmas -- not "laying low" at all. Sooooo, the Venom:ACS mini needs to be bumped up to before the Holiday Special. I'd also place it before "Media Blizzard", given the "Christmas break"/blizzard references tying those two closely together.
Which, of course, is where the MCP currently has it. Bah.
-Jeph!
And Venom appears in the Spider-Man Holiday Special, out in public "three days" before Christmas -- not "laying low" at all. Sooooo, the Venom:ACS mini needs to be bumped up to before the Holiday Special. I'd also place it before "Media Blizzard", given the "Christmas break"/blizzard references tying those two closely together.
Which, of course, is where the MCP currently has it. Bah.
-Jeph!
-
metaldragon
- Chronology Guru
- Posts: 700
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
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Re: Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
I believe we discovered X-Men/Spider-Man 3 belongs in here somewhere near PPTSS 234? (Ben mentions Peter has settled down to a normal life & lost his powers, Ben is wearing the "spare canisters around wrists" style outfit, & momentarily doubts his authenticity as the "real" Spider-Man [skeleton storyline?])
[For the X-Men it takes place between UX 328 & Sabertooth: Red Zone due to Archangel's wings still metallic & undamaged while wearing blue & white costume with halo symbol on chest/Iceman back from Road Trip/Storm present. UX 328 was published the same month as ASM 407/PPTSS 230/SM 64/Sensational Spider-Man 0 if that helps at all.]
[For the X-Men it takes place between UX 328 & Sabertooth: Red Zone due to Archangel's wings still metallic & undamaged while wearing blue & white costume with halo symbol on chest/Iceman back from Road Trip/Storm present. UX 328 was published the same month as ASM 407/PPTSS 230/SM 64/Sensational Spider-Man 0 if that helps at all.]
"May the Light shine forever!"
Re: Scarlet Spider appearances - SMU #12-14, SMTU #3-5
I did an analysis for it some months ago.JephYork wrote:The Spider-Man Wizard mini-comic is missing. It's a short story where Ben thinks back on his past and looks forward to his new future as Spidey. As such, it goes between Spectacular Scarlet Spider #2, where he decides to become Spidey, and Sensational #0, where he does so. (The cover gives its name as "Wizard Mini-Comic #3: Sensational Spider-Man"; the indicia just says "Spider-Man".)