FF vs. the X-Men

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:16 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:Now, the question is: do we need to place FFVX 1-4 after FF 302-303, in which Johnny and Alicia are on their honeymoon?
I'd say after FF 302-303, because in FF 301 Franklin uses his astral self to check in on the hiking Johnny & "Alicia" who... are already on their honeymoon. :)
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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by tlynch » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:35 am

Col_Fury wrote:
Paul Bourcier wrote:Now, the question is: do we need to place FFVX 1-4 after FF 302-303, in which Johnny and Alicia are on their honeymoon?
I'd say after FF 302-303, because in FF 301 Franklin uses his astral self to check in on the hiking Johnny & "Alicia" who... are already on their honeymoon. :)
Actually, that's in FF 302. Point made, however. :-)

That starts to raise another annoying question. Johnny and "Alicia" don't return from their honeymoon until FF 304, at which time Reed has already offered Ben leadership of the FF. That's not a deal-breaker by any means, but it complicates matters.

Could it be in between FF 301 and 302?

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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:52 am

tlynch wrote:
Could it be in between FF 301 and 302?
I don't see why not. People don't necessarily take their honeymoon trip right after the wedding. Perhaps Johnny and Lyjalicia wanted to finish moving Lyjalicia out of her apartment before leaving, and they could be in the process of moving her out in FFVX.

Unless...

Col-Fury wrote:
I'd say after FF 302-303, because in FF 301 Franklin uses his astral self to check in on the hiking Johnny & "Alicia" who... are already on their honeymoon.
Is there a reason Franklin can't use his astral projection power after FFVX?
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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Michael » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:25 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:tlynch wrote:
Could it be in between FF 301 and 302?
I don't see why not. People don't necessarily take their honeymoon trip right after the wedding. Perhaps Johnny and Lyjalicia wanted to finish moving Lyjalicia out of her apartment before leaving, and they could be in the process of moving her out in FFVX.

Unless...

Col-Fury wrote:
I'd say after FF 302-303, because in FF 301 Franklin uses his astral self to check in on the hiking Johnny & "Alicia" who... are already on their honeymoon.
Is there a reason Franklin can't use his astral projection power after FFVX?
I think what he means is that Alicia and Johnny seem to already be on their honeymoon in FF 301. Then again, is it possible that FFVX takes place DURING Alicia's and Johnny's honeymoon? (IOW, is it possible their honeymoon was interrupted for some reason, like Johnny being called back to New York to fight a bad guy?)

Keep in mind that FFVX MUST take place before FF @ 20, because Doom loses control of Latveria (again!) in that issue. (He's clearly still in control in FFVX.) And FF 305 leads into FF @ 20. Is it possible that it takes place between pages of FF 304 or 305?

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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by tlynch » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:23 pm

Michael wrote:
Paul Bourcier wrote:
Col-Fury wrote:
I'd say after FF 302-303, because in FF 301 Franklin uses his astral self to check in on the hiking Johnny & "Alicia" who... are already on their honeymoon.
Is there a reason Franklin can't use his astral projection power after FFVX?
I think what he means is that Alicia and Johnny seem to already be on their honeymoon in FF 301. Then again, is it possible that FFVX takes place DURING Alicia's and Johnny's honeymoon? (IOW, is it possible their honeymoon was interrupted for some reason, like Johnny being called back to New York to fight a bad guy?)
There's really no need for that; the scene ColFury mentions is in FF 302, specifically pages 6-8.

I think in between 301 and 302 would work.

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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:57 pm

tlynch wrote:the scene ColFury mentions is in FF 302, specifically pages 6-8.
Actually, the scene I'm thinking of is in FF 301, page 9. Johnny saves Alicia from an avalanche. Franklin then wonders why it's OK for everyone to use their powers except him.
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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by tlynch » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:43 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Actually, the scene I'm thinking of is in FF 301, page 9. Johnny saves Alicia from an avalanche. Franklin then wonders why it's OK for everyone to use their powers except him.
Whoops. Sorry -- I've no idea how I managed to miss that.

That definitely complicates matters. Maybe they took a honeymoon in several parts? (Reed and Sue did something similar, actually, so there's even a precedent!)

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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Michael wrote:Is it possible that it takes place between pages of FF 304 or 305?
There's a gap of time in FF 305, between pages 17 & 18. And then on page 19, Johnny & "Alicia" are looking at apartments to move into.

Putting together all of the above, we roughly have this:

FF 299: Four Freedoms Plaza is named at a ceremony
FF@22/2: Reed & Sue leave the ceremony
FF 300: Johnny marries "Alicia"
FF 301-303: Johnny & "Alicia's" honeymoon, Reed & Sue suprised by Franklin's astral self
FF 304-305 (1-17): Jonny returns from honeymoon, Thing becomes leader of FF
WCA2 22-23: FFPlaza is mentioned
FFV.X 1-4: Johnny & "Alicia" not living together yet, FFPlaza mentioned, Reed & Sue not surprised by Franklin's astral self
FF 305 (18-22): Johnny & "Alicia" find an apartment

How's it look?
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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Michael » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:10 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
Michael wrote:Is it possible that it takes place between pages of FF 304 or 305?
There's a gap of time in FF 305, between pages 17 & 18. And then on page 19, Johnny & "Alicia" are looking at apartments to move into.

Putting together all of the above, we roughly have this:

FF 299: Four Freedoms Plaza is named at a ceremony
FF@22/2: Reed & Sue leave the ceremony
FF 300: Johnny marries "Alicia"
FF 301-303: Johnny & "Alicia's" honeymoon, Reed & Sue suprised by Franklin's astral self
FF 304-305 (1-17): Jonny returns from honeymoon, Thing becomes leader of FF
WCA2 22-23: FFPlaza is mentioned
FFV.X 1-4: Johnny & "Alicia" not living together yet, FFPlaza mentioned, Reed & Sue not surprised by Franklin's astral self
FF 305 (18-22): Johnny & "Alicia" find an apartment

How's it look?
That sounds good, but I'm wondering- why did you move WCA2 22-23? Currently it's placed between FF 303 and FF 304. I'm going to discuss those WCA issues on the Mephisto thread, since the placement of those issues is key to placing that series in the FF's chronology.

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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:57 pm

Speaking of Johnny's and Lyjalicia's honeymoon...I see they're BTS in SS3 1. I don't have the issue, but I assume they're name-checked by the FF in that issue. Is it noted specifically that the couple is on their honeymoon?
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Re: FF vs. the X-Men

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:16 pm

Michael wrote:That sounds good, but I'm wondering- why did you move WCA2 22-23? Currently it's placed between FF 303 and FF 304. I'm going to discuss those WCA issues on the Mephisto thread, since the placement of those issues is key to placing that series in the FF's chronology.
Actually, I agree with you that those WCA issues work better between FF 303-304. Johnny doesn't appear in WCA2 22-23, possibly because he's still on his honeymoon, AND, it lines up with publication order. So ignore what I said earlier, and instead pay attention to this: :wink:

FF 299: Four Freedoms Plaza is named at a ceremony
FF@22/2: Reed & Sue leave the ceremony
FF 300: Johnny marries "Alicia"
FF 301-303: Johnny & "Alicia's" honeymoon, Reed & Sue suprised by Franklin's astral self
WCA2 22-23: FFPlaza is mentioned, Johnny not present
FF 304-305 (1-17): Johnny returns from honeymoon, Thing becomes leader of FF
FFV.X 1-4: Johnny & "Alicia" not living together yet, FFPlaza mentioned, Reed & Sue not surprised by Franklin's astral self
FF 305 (18-22): Johnny & "Alicia" find an apartment
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