Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Michael
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Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Michael » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:13 am

The current placement for the Mephisto Vs. limited series doesn't work. In She-Hulk's entry, Jen's appearances in issues 1 and 4 take place after Avengers 285. Why is this a problem? Because in Thor's chronology his appearance in Avengers 285 takes place after his appearance in X-Factor 17 and in Jean's chronology her appearances in issues 2 and 3 take place between X-Factor 12 and 13. Therefore, Jean's appearance in issues 2 and 3 must take place before Jen's appearance in issue 1. *brickwall*
The problem is caused by the fact that in issue 2 of the limited series, X-Factor knows that Warren and Maddie are still alive and Warren's wings have not yet been amputated. That means that issue 2 must take place before X-Factor 15, and since X-Factor 13-15 are a continuous story issue 2 has to take place before X-Factor 13. Now Jean is Mephisto's prisoner during issues 2 and 3, and Rogue becomes Mephisto's prisoner shortly before Jean is released and isn't freed until issue 4, which takes place between Thor 380 and 381. The problem is that X-Factor 17 is a crossover with Thor 379. This means that Rogue must have been Mephisto's prisoner during X-Factor 13-17 and Thor 379-380. What this basically means is that the miniseries must have spanned a longer period of time than the writer intended. (Keep in mind that Jen's and Thor's appearances in A 279-285 take place between pages of T 379.)
It looks like Mephisto was screwing up Marvel continuity long before One More Day. Can anyone think of a way to straighten this out? (And please don't say "It's magic, we don't have to explain it.")

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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by metaldragon » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:46 pm

Yea, there are problems. Cyclops leaves for Alaska on page 9 of XF 13. Angel still has his (mangled) wings there. Angel's wings were amputated on the last page of XF 14. He wakes up in XF 15 and discovers them gone, leaves the hospital & (almost) gets blown up in his plane by Hodge. Scott only arrives from Alaska in time to see the plane blow up. That means Mephisto vs. 2 HAS to take place before Cyclops leaves for Alaska. Weirdly though, Angel is drawn without wings in Mephisto vs. 2 when he should be drawn with them bandaged and in traction.

I'm wondering if the entire mini-series shouldn't be considered one big dream sequence?
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by metaldragon » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:06 pm

Iceman is kidnapped by Loki in XF 15 page 18/Thor 377 page 11-12 (almost identical artwork).

Thor returns Iceman to the X-Factor complex in Thor 379 page 8/XF 17 page 1-2 (same moment but shown from different "camera angles").

Is it possible there is a gap during Thor 379 between Page 8 & 9 where events could happen? If that helps...
Last edited by metaldragon on Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Michael » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:49 pm

Yes, there is a gap, and we already shoved A 278-285 in there.
I was just looking over some other entries and the placement gets even more convoluted. According to Tigra's chronology, Greer's appearance in issue 4 takes place after WCA2 24. Unfortunately, according to the Thing's chronology, Ben's appearances in WCA2 22-23 take place between FF 303 and 304. But according to Jen's chronology, issue 4 takes place between FF298 and 299. So, issue 4 takes place after FF303 but before FF 298? *brickwall*

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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by metaldragon » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:18 pm

Michael wrote:Yes, there is a gap, and we already shoved A 278-285 in there.
I was just looking over some other entries and the placement gets even more convoluted. According to Tigra's chronology, Greer's appearance in issue 4 takes place after WCA2 24. Unfortunately, according to the Thing's chronology, Ben's appearances in WCA2 22-23 take place between FF 303 and 304. But according to Jen's chronology, issue 4 takes place between FF298 and 299. So, issue 4 takes place after FF303 but before FF 298? *brickwall*
Is Thor wearing his mystic armour or his regular outfit in Mephisto vs. 4? Maybe the art can give us a clue if it fits between pages of Thor 377/sometime earlier before he forges the armor or sometime after 379, page 8.
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by metaldragon » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:24 pm

I had a thought. If all the events of the Mephisto vs. series take place while the heroes he deals with are asleep, Mephisto vs 2 could possibly take place between XF 14 & 15. If Mephisto somehow brought Cyclops's "soul" from Alaska to join the rest of the team and messed with their memories, it could work. That would explain why Angel has no wings in the art. I know it's just a theory, but does it help bring things forward enough to fix the calendar placement?
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Michael » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:28 pm

Mephisto vs. 4 takes place between Thor 380 and 381- it's explictly tied into Thor's battle with the Midgard Serpent in Thor 380.

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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:11 pm

Michael wrote:
according to the Thing's chronology, Ben's appearances in WCA2 22-23 take place between FF 303 and 304.
I think this is incorrect. I believe Ben appears in WCA2 22-23 between FF 298-299.

Also, does the real She-Hulk actually appear in MEPHV. 1, or is it just a She-Hulk Wraith?
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:06 pm

Michael wrote:Mephisto vs. 4 takes place between Thor 380 and 381- it's explictly tied into Thor's battle with the Midgard Serpent in Thor 380.
Ah! Thank you. I don't have those issues. I just have the X-Factor ones.
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:09 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:does the real She-Hulk actually appear in MEPHV. 1, or is it just a She-Hulk Wraith?
Also, what about the Human Torch & "Alicia"? are they only wraiths in MEPHV. 1?
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:21 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
Also, what about the Human Torch & "Alicia"? are they only wraiths in MEPHV. 1?
The real Johnny and Alicia (Lyja) also appear in MEPHV. 1, in addition to Wraiths disguised as them. There is definitely a She-Hulk Wraith in this issue, on pages 9-11. The question is whether it's the real She-Hulk or the She-Hulk Wraith who appears on pages 1-4:1, which occurs the previous day.
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:21 am

Thanks!

Does anyone reference Four Freedoms Plaza by name in this mini?

And am I right that there's a gap of time in issue 4?
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Peter Fabricius » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:13 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Thanks!

Does anyone reference Four Freedoms Plaza by name in this mini?

And am I right that there's a gap of time in issue 4?

No, nobody references FF Plaza by name.

I don't see much of a gap in issue 4, there could be a break between page 3 and 4, just after Rogue is the only X-Man held by Mephisto, and before the arrival of the Living Tribunal.
After the Tribunal leaves, Mephisto immediately takes Rogue to the fallen Thor (that would be between Thor #380 and 381) and he then creates the flame barrier seen on p 2 of Thor #381.

And of course a break could be after Mephisto leaves on p21 of issues 4, and returns to his own domain
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:04 pm

Thanks!

I just got back in from picking this mini up from the store, and I plan to read it along with everything else soon.
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Re: Mephisto Vs. Continuity

Post by Michael » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:48 pm

Peter Fabricius wrote:
I don't see much of a gap in issue 4, there could be a break between page 3 and 4, just after Rogue is the only X-Man held by Mephisto, and before the arrival of the Living Tribunal.
After the Tribunal leaves, Mephisto immediately takes Rogue to the fallen Thor (that would be between Thor #380 and 381) and he then creates the flame barrier seen on p 2 of Thor #381.

And of course a break could be after Mephisto leaves on p21 of issues 4, and returns to his own domain
The essential point is that since Jean had to be returned to Earth before X-Factor 13, and Thor 379 takes place concurrently with X-Factor 17, Rogue has to have been Mephisto's prisoner for several days after Jean was returned to Earth. Of course, it's possible that time passed more quickly in Mephisto's realm than it did on Earth.

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