Human Torch,Mr.Fantastic and Venom in SUB-M2 3

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Michael
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Human Torch,Mr.Fantastic and Venom in SUB-M2 3

Post by Michael » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:52 am

A few months back we argued about where SUB-M2 3 fits in the Defenders' chronology. I just realized there are more problems with the placement of SUB-M2 3. In the Human Torch's and Mr. Fantastic's chronologies SUB-M2 3 is placed after ASM 258. In Venom's chronology, ASM 258 is placed before SUB-M2 3. Obviously, we have a problem.
Part of the problem has to do with the placement of SUB-M2 3 relative to the Surtwar. In ASM 258, the unnatural snows are just starting as Peter is going home from the Baxter Building. Now, Kitty and Wolverine are in Japan for the Kitty Pryde and Wolverine limited series during the Surtwar, and that's when Logan learns of James Hudson's death. In Alpha Flight 16, Wolverine goes to comfort Heather, while a separate plot in the same issue involving Puck,Marrina and Namor makes it clear that the events of SUB-M2 haven't happened yet. If Heather's and Logan's plot is happening at the same time as Puck's,Marrina's and Namor's, then Namor's appearance has to take place after the Surtwar. OTOH, it's possible the two plots are happening at different times.
Here's another thing to keep in mind- Peter appears in civvies in SUB-M2 3. The only reason to think that he's wearing the symbiote is because there's an image of Spidey in the black costume above him. Now that image is clearly artistic license- it's not like passerby saw a Spidey image above Peter. I'm not sure if should count as definitive proof that Peter's wearing the symbiote. Besides, we don't know if it's the symbiote or one of the black costumes Felicia made for him in PPTSS 99.
Last edited by Michael on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Michael
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Re: Human Torch,Mr.Fantastic and Venom in SUB-M2 3

Post by Michael » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:15 am

I just looked over Spider-Man's and Doctor Strange's chronologies- they're also inconsistent in the placement of SUB-M2 3. Peter's chronology has SUB-M2 3 before UX 190-191 while Strange's has SUB-M2 3 after UX 190-191.

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Re: Human Torch,Mr.Fantastic and Venom in SUB-M2 3

Post by Michael » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:49 am

I just realized- there's also an inconsistency in the placement of SUB-M2 3 between Dr.Strange's and the FF's chronologies. In the FF's chronologies, SUB-M2 3 is placed prior to FF 274. However, in Dr. Strange's chronology, SUB-M2 3 is placed after UX 190-191, and in Spider-Man's chronology, UX 190 is placed after WOSM 1, which happens after the symbiote escapes in FF 274.
So just to make it clear, SUB-M2 3 is currently placed in FOUR different time periods for the various characters involved:
Defenders: prior to Secret Wars
Spider-Man and Venom: after Secret Wars but before the Surtwar
Fantastic Four: after the Surtwar but before FF 274
Dr. Strange: after FF 274

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Re: Human Torch,Mr.Fantastic and Venom in SUB-M2 3

Post by Russ Chappell » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Michael wrote:So just to make it clear, SUB-M2 3 is currently placed in FOUR different time periods for the various characters involved:
I'm not debating; I'm just asking, because I don't have the book in front of me: Is that a problem? Does the story take place over an extended period of time, where different characters could appear at different times?

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Re: Human Torch,Mr.Fantastic and Venom in SUB-M2 3

Post by Michael » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:53 pm

Basically, the various heroes are all watching a broadcast of a speech by Namor. I suppose that if we wanted to we could say that some of them weren't watching it live, but that's clearly not the implication in the issue.

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