Magneto in Acts of Vengeance

[Michael]

I've been looking over Magneto's Acts of Vengeance chronology and I think that UX 253 has to take place sometime DURING his membership in the Acts of Vengeance cabal. Here's why- he appears in W2 19, and W2 19-25 lead into UX 251. So UX 253 would have to take place after W2 19.

[frogcoin]

its ok to me, i made it that way when i was working on the Acts of vengeance arc. This is not the final arrangement but this is a part of some work in progress i had on the subject around a year ago when i place it in a timeline. Note that the same-color cells means theres some kind of conecction between those comics.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[JephYork]

Where, specifically, should we move UX #253 to?

UX #256-257 occur between Web of Spider-Man #61 and Avengers #313, according to Mandarin's chronology in the recent '09 Index. (That's annoying, because I see that the MCP has Magneto's appearance in Web #61 *after* Avengers West Coast #55, where Loki's "Cabal" is defeated and disbands. It also has Wolverine #23, which occurs before UX #251 and also during a time when the "Cabal" was active, after AWC #60. Uggggh.)

In any event -- UX #253 must occur after Wolverine #23 and before Avengers #313. But where?

I should dig out the chronology of the Acts of Vengeance "spine" that I drafted up while I was putting together the upcoming Omnibus. That would probably be helpful here...

-Jeph!

[Michael]

Where, specifically, should we move UX #253 to?

UX #256-257 occur between Web of Spider-Man #61 and Avengers #313, according to Mandarin's chronology in the recent '09 Index. (That's annoying, because I see that the MCP has Magneto's appearance in Web #61 *after* Avengers West Coast #55, where Loki's "Cabal" is defeated and disbands. It also has Wolverine #23, which occurs before UX #251 and also during a time when the "Cabal" was active, after AWC #60. Uggggh.)

In any event -- UX #253 must occur after Wolverine #23 and before Avengers #313. But where?

I should dig out the chronology of the Acts of Vengeance "spine" that I drafted up while I was putting together the upcoming Omnibus. That would probably be helpful here...

-Jeph!

Wolverine 23 only features Magneto on the last 2 pages. There's clearly a gap between the last scene featuring Logan, which takes place before UX 251, and the scenes where Magneto takes revenge on Geist. So UX 253 can occur before Magneto's appearance in Wolverine 23.

[JephYork]

Hmm, okay, noted. But still -- where in Magneto's overall chronology should UXM #253 occur? We've established that his current chrono for this period is all messed up, so putting it "before W #23" -- going by W #23's current placement -- still places it well after the Acts of Vengeance period.

Let me get my Omnibus notes...

-Jeph!

[Michael]

Well, UX 255 has to happen before A 312, because it's a plot point in A 312 that Freedom Force is misbehaving because Mystique is greiving.
Regarding WOSM 61, everyone else's chronology has it prior to A 313.

[JephYork]

Okay, here's the reading order I whipped up for the Acts of Vengeance Omnibus HC. (Everyone preorder now!)

A good reading order isn't always the same thing as an absolute chronology, and this volume only includes the "spine" of the series, plus the Spidey books -- but this should give us a good framework.

Avengers Spotlight #26
Amazing Spidey #326
Spectacular Spidey #158
Web of Spidey #59
Avengers #311
Captain America #365
Quasar #5
Avengers Spotlight #27
Iron Man #251-252
Avengers West Coast #53
Thor #411-412
Captain America #366
Quasar #6
Avengers #312
Cloak & Dagger #9
Amazing Spidey #327
Spectacular Spidey #159
Web of Spidey #60
Amazing Spidey #328
Spectacular Spidey #160
Web of Spidey #61
Quasar #7
Captain America #367
Avengers West Coast #54
Avengers Spotlight #28
Thor #413
Avengers #313
Avengers West Coast #55
Amazing Spidey ##29
Avengers Annual #19
Avengers Spotlight #29

So ... Magneto's appearance in Wolverine #19 has to be before UX #253, because Wolvie #23 leads into UX #251: W #19 -> W #23 -> UXM #251 -> UX #253.

UX #253 has to be before Avengers #312, because UX #255 is before Avengers #312. UX #253 -> UX #255 -> A #312.

The MCP places W #19 after Spectacular Spidey #158. I agree, as Kingpin joins Loki's cabal in #158, and appears there in W #19.

ASSUMING that my reading order is actually a better chronological guide to the event than Magneto's current chronology (an assertation that has yet to be proven) -- AND assuming that Magneto's Wolverine #23 appearance *does* occur shortly after the scene that leads into UX #251 ... then Magneto appears in the following comics, in the following order, between Spec #158 and A #312:

Spectacular Spidey #158
Wolverine #19
Wolverine #23
Avengers West Coast #53
Captain America #366
Avengers #312

There's quite a big gap between Spec #158 and AWC #53 in my list above. Would those be good before-and-afters for Magneto's UXM #253 appearance?

(Note that currently, AWC #53 is placed *before* Spec #158 in Magneto's MCP chronology. Hmmm.)

-Jeph!

[metaldragon]

I see you haven't included the New Mutants & X-Factor bits in Acts in the list... Their Atlantis Attacks appearances (right after Acts of Vengeance) makes things interesting around there.

[JephYork]

No, like I said, this is just the "spine" of the crossover, laid out in a pleasing reading order for folks who don't particularly care how things overlap and interweave.

-Jeph!

[frogcoin]

i have the placement of almost all the AoV issues, the only thing was that i could not show everything in the screenshot i showed in a earlier post, for a complete view check the full spreadsheet here in gooogledocs:

AoV Timeline

scroll down until you get to the AoV issues, please remember that this spreadsheet is totally outdated by now and is only used to show the AoV placement. just in case you want to make some corrections of stuff outside of the AoV arc.

the numbering for example 1/2, 2/2 can mean two things: that the comic is split and during that time the comics in between occurred or theres a flashback, where the 1/2 usually is the present and the 2/2 or other numbering is a flashback. also the comics adjacent that have same coloring mean that they are one way or another closely related (a character showing or an specific event that continues in the next issue).

[JephYork]

I have no doubt that this spreadsheet is easy for *you* to understand, but could I ask you to translate your findings into a text list?

Are you trying to say anything about the specific questions raised in this thread, or just generally showing us your proposed Acts of Vengeance chronology?

-Jeph!

[frogcoin]

Sure Jeph, ok ill put aside a lot of explanations about it so i dont make it more complicated and only answer whats asked, i worked the AoV chronology putting aside whats know about it and working from scratch reading issue by issue, i placed the magneto chronology in this order:


Magneto

PPTSS 158
AWC 53
W2 19
ASM 327
*W2 23
CA 366
A 312
*UX253
WOSM 60
AWC 54
WOSM 61
A 313
AWC 55
CA 367

note that the issues marked with an asterisk dont have any direct tie-ins to indicate that they should be exactly placed there, even tought i consider that W2 23 should be before UX 253 its just my oppinion. still i found a small clue in CA 366 quite interesting, as we see Magneto at the end of W2 23 he finds Geist and tells him that he knows that he worked in the Nazi camps, and wanted to talk with him leaving as his last lines:

"ah! your german comes back! Let´s talk inside your safe-house... undisturbed. I enjoy conversing with former nazis herr Geist" "--there are no limits where our discussion may lead"

then in CA 366 theres some lines between magneto and Loki:

Magneto: "is that the original red skull who sits among us? my sources had informed me he was dead"
Loki: "as far a i know he is"
Magneto: "hmmmh!"

[JephYork]

Yes, they're both being cases of Magneto punishing Nazis, but I don't see any clues that one must occur before or after the other...

Also, your chrono is off in at least one spot -- it was established upthread that UX #253-255 have to occur before A #312, as A #312 references UX #255.

-Jeph!

[frogcoin]

Yes, they're both being cases of Magneto punishing Nazis, but I don't see any clues that one must occur before or after the other...

Also, your chrono is off in at least one spot -- it was established upthread that UX #253-255 have to occur before A #312, as A #312 references UX #255.

-Jeph!

youre right about the placement, i write it down like that by mistake, heres the fix:

Magneto

PPTSS 158
AWC 53
W2 19
ASM 327
*W2 23
CA 366
*UX253
WOSM 60
A 312
AWC 54
WOSM 61
A 313
AWC 55
CA 367

Regarding the Nazi stuff in W2 19 its the first time we see magneto next to the red skull, at the end of W2 23 is intended that magneto takes Geist inside the safe-house to interrogate him, and in CA 366 magneto ask loki himself if that was the original red skull (which i dont really now for sure but loki usually lie to achieve whatever he wants) and he confirmed it. I just make a vague guess that magnetos questioned geist about the red skull but geist said that the red skull was dead, so he asked loki himself to know if the red skull was the real deal or a fake.

[JephYork]

Okay, one thing's clear here: NOBODY agrees on the overall chronology of Acts of Vengeance.

That's bad. Is there any way that we can quickly figure out the correct chronology of the "spine" books (Avengers, AWC, Cap, Thor, Iron Man) and then add on the Magneto-related puzzle pieces from other books, so I can get an answer to the question of where to put UX #253?

Here's my proposed order for the "spine" of the seres, with notes as I can remember them. Does anyone agree/disagree?

Avengers #311 - Avengers Island sunk
Captain America #365 - references island sinking??
Iron Man #251-252 - iirc, Iron Man flies off to meet the WCA here.
Avengers West Coast #53 - Iron Man with WCA, referencing A #311
Thor #411-412
Captain America #366 - ties into the Thor #411-412 Juggy battle
Avengers #312
Captain America #367
Avengers West Coast #54
Thor #413 - Thor heads off to the final battle
Avengers #313 - final battle, part 1
Avengers West Coast #55 - final battle, part 2
Avengers Annual #19 - aftermath

Right?

Frogcoin has Cap #367 *after* the final battle in AWC #55, but at this point that doesn't matter to me, because we've already decided that UXM #253 must be before Avengers #312.

-Jeph!