Illuminati (Especially Professor X) in Iron Man Legacy 6

[Michael]

In Iron Man Legacy 6, which is set during the period when Stane controlled Stark International, the Illuminati (Dr.Strange, Mr. Fantastic,Namor, Professor X and Black Bolt) discuss whether or not they should help Tony. This appearance has to take place after Iron Man 173, where Stane takes over Stark International. It also has to take before Secret Wars. Xavier's and Namor's dialogue make it clear that Tony has yet to seek treatment for his alcoholism and Tony starts AA as soon as he's released from the hospital in Iron Man 182. If it took place after Secret Wars but while Tony was still in the hospital, you would think that Reed and Namor would be primarily concerned with how Sue was reacting to her miscarriage and everyone else would be worrying if Tony would fully recover from freezing to death. Tony's lack of money would be the last think on everyone's mind. Besides, Reed would probably have mentioned that Tony was in the hospital. So it probably takes place before Secret Wars.
The problem is that Xavier is walking in Iron Man Legacy 6. In UX 167, Xavier's mind is transferred into a clone that should be able to walk, but he can't walk yet, either due to a mental block (as per UX 167) or physical problems (as per UX 174). He finally regains the ability to walk in NM 14. The problem is that by this time, Lilandra has already left Earth without Xavier to go to regain control of her empire from Deathbird, who has seized control of it- Xavier says goodbye to her in NM 13. But Xavier tells Strange he was on Lilandra's flagship when Strange brought him to the Sancum. So should we assume that Lilandra returned to Earth sometime between NM 14 and Secret Wars? Or is there another explanation?

[Michael]

I've just been informed that this Iron Man Legacy arc might not be in continuity. The previews for the next issue feature

Spoiler:

the Serpent Society, which didn't exist prior to Secret Wars II, and this arc is supposed to take place before Secret Wars II

. So I guess we should wait until next month to see if this arc is in continuity.
.

[Col_Fury]

I'm not caught up on reading Iron Man Legacy, I've only read the first issue so far, but for some reason I have it a note to myself that says the first issue takes place early on in the Kurt Busiek run of volume 3.

Has the series been jumping around in time? Or has it just been running a mish-mash of various era references? Has Iron Man been using the same suit of armor in every issue?

[Michael]

The first arc (issues 1-5) took place sometime shortly before Radioactive Man joined the Thunderbolts and Doom went to Hell. The current arc takes place when Tony was a penniless drunk. And no, it's not the same armors in both arcs.

[Michael]

OK, Iron Man Legacy 7 is out. The story takes place prior to the foundation of Circuits Maximus in IM 186. In Legacy 7, the Pride hire the Serpent Society to kill Tony Stark. The problem is that the Serpent Society wasn't in existence at this point. In CA 307 Anaconda, Black Mamba and Death Adder break into Sidewinder's apartment looking for the money he owes them. In CA 308 Sidewinder pays them and tells them about his plans for the Serpent Society. In CA 309, they invite various villains to a meeting. In CA 310, at that meeting, Sidewinder convinces everyone except Constrictor to join the Serpent Society. Constrictor decides to rat out the Society to the Avengers, leading to Cap's first encounter with the Society later in the issue.
Now here's the problem- SWII 1 takes place between IM 196 and 197 for Tony and Rhodey and between CA 307 and 308 for Cap. Since Legacy 7 takes place before IM 186, Legacy 6-7 take place before SWII 1. But CA 308-310 take place after SWII 1. So the Serpent Society shouldn't be in existence at this point. So Legacy 6-7 (and all future issues in the arc) are out of continuity. Does anyone disagree with me?
Now, here's a question- assuming that we agree that Legacy 6-7 are out of continuity, how should we handle the Legacy series? Should we assume the entire series is out of continuity, or should we handle it on an arc by arc basis?

[Paul Bourcier]

After reading issue #6, I placed this arc between IM 185 and 186 for the reasons pointed out above -- Stark is bearded and dissheveled and is living in LA. There was a reference to his being homeless in LA in this issue, but I figured it was a rumor that the Illuminati had heard. Issue #7 confirms that Stark is, indeed, homeless in LA. This doesn't match the events of IM 184-185, in which Stark moves to California with Rhodey and the Irwins. He isn't homeless. Without even factoring in the Serpent Society, I began to be suspicious, but i'm not ready to discount this arc entirely. I think this is a "wait and see."

[Michael]

There are a couple of other issues- Puff Adder wasn't a member of the Serpent Society, as he appears to be in this issue, until after CA 338, and by that time Tony had already rebuilt his fortune. Also, Tony didn't seem to be lugging around the bag containing the armor during IM 173-185- it was nowhere in the art. I guess we can wait and see but I don't see how this arc can be in continuity.

[Paul Bourcier]

Michael wrote:

Tony didn't seem to be lugging around the bag containing the armor during IM 173-185- it was nowhere in the art.

I interpreted a scene issue #6 as Tony picking up his father's golf bag (with a hidden armor inside) from Stane at Stane's LA headquarters.

[Michael]

Looking back at the flashback in Iron Man Legacy 6, I'm not sure that will work. The flashback in Legacy 6 seems intended to take place shortly after Stane stole Tony's fortune. Stane doesn't think that Tony can survive without his fortune. Stane compares Tony to a lion raised in captivity about to be released into the wild for the first time and predicts that Tony will be eaten by the first gazelle he sees. That doesn't make sense if Tony has already been surviving without his fortune for several months.
In addition, Stane clearly didn't realize that Tony had stopped drinking until Madame Masque told him in Iron Man 198. You would think that if he met with Tony while he was several weeks sober, he would notice that Tony seemed sober. And, if this took place in Los Angeles, he would wonder how Tony got from New York to Los Angeles if he was a penniless drunk.

[Paul Bourcier]

Maybe Stane failed to notice these details given his tremendous arrogance.

[Col_Fury]

I'm getting caught up on my reading...

Tony was only ever homeless on the East Coast. By the time he made it to the West Coast, he was already with the Circuits Maximus folks and had a place to stay. I suppose we could say he had a previously unseen trip to the West Coast, but being broke, how would he make it back and forth?(not insurmountable, I'm just sayin')

During this time Tony had sworn off being Iron Man.(he had to keep remiding people that Rhodey was Iron man now and he had no intention of being Iron Man again... until of course, he became Iron Man again) And yet, he's lugging around a suit of armor disguised as golf clubs is these Legacy issues. On the West Coast.

Tony did, however, have a beard throughout this time. Yay!

The Serpent Society didn't exist at the time Stark was homeless. Even worse, Puff Adder is a member in these Legacy issues. Puff Adder was one of Viper's double agents in Cap #337-338; the main reason he and his Serpent Squad-mates(including Fer-de-Lance & Black Racer) were able to infiltrate the Serpent Society was because they were *brand new villains* that were bascially auditioning themselves to join the Society. And the night they were given a trial membership, they attacked. Sidewinder left the Society before the Atlantis Attacks Annuals, Cobra took over, and Puff Adder actually joined the Society before Atlantis Attacks.

So really, there isn't a point when Sidewinder(who appears in Legacy #7 in charge of the Society) and Puff Adder are in the Serpent Society at the same time. If we squint REALLY HARD, there's a slight bit of time before Atlantis Attacks. Which is way after when Stark was homeless.(on the East Coast, mind you) By Atlantis Attacks, he had gone through a suit of armor or two... and wasn't homeless. And didn't have a beard anymore.

Putting all of the above together, we either have a whole lot of explainin' to do, some of which I see no way to, or there's just nowhere for this to go.

[Michael]

OK, Legacy 8 is out. In this issue, we learn that Tony knows about Sidewinder and his Serpent Society because SHIELD has a file on them. Aside from the fact that there WAS no Serpent Society when Tony lost his company to Stane (and in fact, the Cobra was still making appearances as a solo villain), this causes problems because Captain America had no clue who the leader of the Serpent Society was when he first encountered them. Cap only learned about Sidewinder by waiting in the prison where a few other members of the Serpent Society were being held until Sidewinder came to break them out. I suppose we could say that Nick or Tony forgot to show Steve the file, but it's one more reason to add this arc to the non-canon pile.

[Paul Bourcier]

Also, Tony is trying to start up a new company that isn't Circuits Maximus. More fodder for non-canonicity.

[Fantomex]

I'm not sure if you take into account what the actual writers wish their stories to be, but I e-mailed Fred Van Lente about the Pride's appearances for the runaways.mergingminds site and he stated that the series is 'in contintuity.' Whether that turns out to be true remains to be seen, but that's how he sees it.

Mike

[Michael]

The general rule is this- if Marvel says a story ISN'T in continuity, then it isn't. If Marvel says a story is in continuity, then it is in continuity UNLESS it "can't be". In other words, if Marvel says a story is in continuity, but it's an impossible placement, then it's not in continuity.