Placements around GenerationX 6

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frogcoin
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Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by frogcoin »

I was just checking GENX 6 when i found that there were some placementsthat didnt fit, and then checking it with the general X cronology it just showed major problems in placement, the characters whose chronology doesnt fit initially are Wolverine and Professor X, then looking closely there are some problems also with sabretooth placement, heres the chronology of each of them:

Wolverine
W '95
W '95/2
XFOR 46
GENX 6
UX 323
UX 324
W2 92

Professor X
W2 91
W '95
XFOR 45
XFOR 47
GENX 6
W2 92
DCVM 1

Sabretooth
XFOR 44
UX 323
W2 92
XFOR 45
XFOR 46
XFOR 47
UX 326

After a while checking the issues in more detail the chronology order i propose is:
XFOR 45
XFOR 46
GENX 6
UX 323
XFOR 47/UX 324 (it could be in any order)
W2 92

There are other plecement issues a bit ahead but i would like to solve these ones first, please check the issues and tell me what do you think about the proposed order, thank you.
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by Michael »

XFOR 45-47 are a continuing story. Are you proposing to place a gap in the middle of XFOR 47, and if so, why?
Also, UX 323-324 are a continuous story.
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by Russ Chappell »

Michael wrote:Also, UX 323-324 are a continuous story.
Since it looks like no one appears in both XFOR 47 & UX 324, it wouldn't really matter, for our purposes.

Frogcoin, do you have all of these books?
I can't promise you that things will improve, if we make changes;
I can promise you that they won't improve, if we don't.

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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by JephYork »

After a while checking the issues in more detail the chronology order i propose is:
Maybe you could give us some actual evidence to show how you chose this order. Plot points, etc.?

-Jeph!
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by frogcoin »

yes i have those comics and i already read all of them, not in the traditional way in paper but oh well :roll:

as some of you remember i dont use the traditional linear placement of comics but instead a chronology where events that are not related or have a direct conenction can occur at the same time, the hard thing with the placement of these issues is the appearance of wolverine as every series show him in a different way, some in a more bestial state and other in a more human state. Also a good resource for summaries can be found at uncannyxmen.net. Now back on topic we have:

XFOR 45 (professor X ask cable to go on a mission, clabe appears next in XFOR 46, thabita and shatterstar find sabretooth in the danger room in a relaxing forest, she asks cable some days off pretending to have the flu and goes to tell Sam the good news after that, to her regret, Sam tells her that he has not time to share because he is busy working with the x-men now and has to go with storm to investigate a massacre in a club)

XFOR 46 (cable arrives to siberia and they fight the mimic, their ship gets very damaged from the fight. thabita feeds some milk to sabretooth and talks to herself for a while next to sabretooth, when she leaves sabretooth says his first word since his brain was damaged by wolverine,during the night wolverine arrives to thabitas bed and ask her dont trust in sabretooth, she gets angry because everyone tells her what to do)

GENX 6 (Emma Frost arrives to the XMansion and talks with Xavier about Genenation, the massacre in the club already happened here, charles says that bishop and psylocke have checked the tunnels and have found nothing to which Emma replies that he will hear from them again soon, jubilee visits wolverine and wants to stay with him but he ask her to please stay with GenX so shell learn more about her powers)

UX 323 (Sam is taking sabretooth for a walk, they get out of the mansion and find wolverine, sabretooth slowly repeats "creed" after hearing his name from wolverine, sam tries to stop the confrontation that wolverine is trying to create and puts himself in the middle, wolverine get angry but them storm stops wolverine, she ask him to join her and sam to go investigate the massacre at the club; wolverine agreeds and says that James Hudson and Heather are coming to the mansion but theres still a few hours before they arrive)

XFOR 47 (Cable, Sunspot and Caliban manage to arrive to the institute with the ship barely working, sunspot helps to keep the ship in the air. Thabita goes to give some milk to creed again, she surprises as he talks to her for the first time)

UX 324 (Wolverine, Storm and Sam fight Genenation, Beast joins them as hes returning form his visit to tilby in UX323)

W2 92 (James Hudson and Heather are running scans on wolverine and creed, creed makes wolverine a look like trying to mock him but he never says a word, then leaves with thabita she talks to him even as he dont say a word she knows he can understand her)

To finish the explanation a small graphic representation ;)

Image

Hoping it is detailed enough :mrgreen:
Last edited by frogcoin on Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by JephYork »

Frogcoin, please don't take this the wrong way -- but all you've provided are plot synopses and a snippet of a graph that doesn't make any sense out of context. You haven't given any real indication as to why one comic must take place before or after another -- or at least, you haven't made it clear and easy to follow; things like "Sabretooth speaks his first word"/"Sabretooth says another word" are buried inside paragraphs of unnecessary data.

Also, according to my reading of your synopses, I see an error. In UX #323-324, the X-Men discover and battle Gene Nation. In Gen X #6, they seem to already know about Gene Nation. Why is Gen X #6 before UX #323-324?

Also, admittedly I'm going from memory here -- but doesn't Sam *leave to investigate the massacre* in X-Force #45? Meaning, that issue (or at least that scene) should occur *during* UXM #323, between the scenes where Storm asks Wolvie to accompany them, and the scenes where they investigate?

I don't really trust this "graph method" of yours. I really don't trust it at all.

-Jeph!

(Also, utterly unrelated, but it's "Tabitha", not "Thabita".)
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by Michael »

Also, at the end of UX 323 Wolverine confronts Gene Nation. As UX 324 opens, he's still fighting Gene Nation. In XFOR 47, Wolverine is present when Tabitha goes to talk to Sabretooth. So the scene where Tabitha goes to talk with Sabretooth cannot take place between UX 323 and UX 324. (Incidentally, XFOR 47 needs to be added to Wolverine's chronology.)
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by frogcoin »

ok no images from now on.
Also, according to my reading of your synopses, I see an error. In UX #323-324, the X-Men discover and battle Gene Nation. In Gen X #6, they seem to already know about Gene Nation. Why is Gen X #6 before UX #323-324?
in UX322 at the massacre at the club detective jones says to archangel "these people apparently were so proud of their that they signed it", then ask archangel to fly up to the ceiling of the disco to see it, even though the sign its not show for sure they would sign "Genenation" not "Marrow & the Nasty Mutants".
Also, admittedly I'm going from memory here -- but doesn't Sam *leave to investigate the massacre* in X-Force #45? Meaning, that issue (or at least that scene) should occur *during* UXM #323, between the scenes where Storm asks Wolvie to accompany them, and the scenes where they investigate?
Archangel already went to investigate at UX 322, when sam says at XFOR 45 that he has to go to investigate the masacre at the club with storm and then at UX 323 Storm asks wolverine to join them its a single event, its not like sam and storm went to investigate and then sam and storm go a "second time" to investigate.

i provided information that relates one issue to another an actually skipped unnecessary details, theres no an editor note that says "so after sabretooth growls he shows up in UX 323", less information than that someone would probably say that its lacking information and need more background details.

Michael remember that wolverine refuses to be in the school as long as sabretooth is in there, also if he were already in there the would show up when tabitha changed the danger room scenarios a few times, which leads to think in the chance that he was part of the simulation outside the school.
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by JephYork »

in UX322 at the massacre at the club detective jones says to archangel "these people apparently were so proud of their that they signed it", then ask archangel to fly up to the ceiling of the disco to see it, even though the sign its not show for sure they would sign "Genenation" not "Marrow & the Nasty Mutants".
A better point to make would have been, the name "Gene Nation" (it's two words, btw) is used repeatedly in Gen X #5-6 -- so it's not surprising that Emma knows it by the end of Gen X #6.
when sam says at XFOR 45 that he has to go to investigate the masacre at the club with storm and then at UX 323 Storm asks wolverine to join them its a single event, its not like sam and storm went to investigate and then sam and storm go a "second time" to investigate.
I didn't say that I thought there were two investigations, frogcoin.

However -- having checked X-Force #45, my memory was wrong. There's no scene where Boomer watches Cannonball leave with the other X-Men in a shuttle. Instead, she watches X-Force leave in the PACRAT. So, never mind what I was trying to say. ;)
i provided information that relates one issue to another an actually skipped unnecessary details, theres no an editor note that says "so after sabretooth growls he shows up in UX 323", less information than that someone would probably say that its lacking information and need more background details.
From your syntax, I'm assuming that English isn't your first language. You do a great job speaking it, but you suffer from run-on sentences in places and I think there are times when you don't come off as clearly as you think you do. You might want to try spelling things out for the less bright folks here ... like saying "Sabretooth speaks a word here; noted as his first word since being lobotomized, and placing this scene prior to UX #323, where he also speaks."

Okay -- for the moment I'll buy that Gen X #6 and X-Force #45 occur before UXM #323-324. However, I'll go you one better, and theorize that Gen X #6 occurs before X-Force #45!

UX #322 - X-Men learn of massacre.
Gen X #5-6 - Gene Nation attacks Emma. Massacre has already happened. Published same months as UX #322-323.
X-Force #45 - Cannonball says he's about to head out the door to investigate. Published same month as UX #323.
UXM #323-324 - Cannonball investigates.

Due to the immediacy of Cannonball's statement in X-Force #45, I think it should go *right* before UX #323 -- not be separated by Gen X #5-6.

edit:
Michael remember that wolverine refuses to be in the school as long as sabretooth is in there, also if he were already in there the would show up when tabitha changed the danger room scenarios a few times, which leads to think in the chance that he was part of the simulation outside the school.
What does this mean? What issue are you referring to and what conclusion are you drawing? Are you trying to say that "the Wolverine who appears in X-Force #47 was a Danger Room hologram"? Because boy, I really had to scratch my head for a while to figure that out. Again, *you* know what you're talking about, but you're not really making it easy for thread readers to pick up quickly and simply.

You may be right, though.

-Jeph!
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by frogcoin »

youre right, english is not my native language, also i should explain better something and dont suppose people know the background ommiting details like in this case the "lobotomized sabretooth", im sorry. :mrgreen:
A better point to make would have been, the name "Gene Nation" (it's two words, btw) is used repeatedly in Gen X #5-6 -- so it's not surprising that Emma knows it by the end of Gen X #6.
I like the idea, its a lot more easy, point taken :D
Okay -- for the moment I'll buy that Gen X #6 and X-Force #45 occur before UXM #323-324. However, I'll go you one better, and theorize that Gen X #6 occurs before X-Force #45!

UX #322 - X-Men learn of massacre.
Gen X #5-6 - Gene Nation attacks Emma. Massacre has already happened. Published same months as UX #322-323.
X-Force #45 - Cannonball says he's about to head out the door to investigate. Published same month as UX #323.
UXM #323-324 - Cannonball investigates.

Due to the immediacy of Cannonball's statement in X-Force #45, I think it should go *right* before UX #323 -- not be separated by Gen X #5-6.
ill check the issues again but the arrangement you propose at first glance looks good to me. :D
What does this mean? What issue are you referring to and what conclusion are you drawing? Are you trying to say that "the Wolverine who appears in X-Force #47 was a Danger Room hologram"? Because boy, I really had to scratch my head for a while to figure that out. Again, *you* know what you're talking about, but you're not really making it easy for thread readers to pick up quickly and simply.
sorry i just pointed the idea to michael but i didnt explain that part of he plot to the other people watching the thread.

yes i was talking about the wolverine that shows up in the danger room when creed was living there for being lobotomized, Boomer went to the danger room and creed asked her that he wanted to go out of the school, thing she didnt do because it was forbidden, but then she shad the idea of use the scenario that showed the outside of the school in the danger room, after a few missing tries changing the scenarios (including creed in outer space) she finally set the right one, then they go for a walk in the scenario when suddenly creed sees wolverine hiding in the bushes and displaying hiw claws while staring at him, creed stops and says he doesnt want to be there anymore.

Thing is wolverine refused to be inside of the mansion as long as creed where there, other detail is that wolverine never moves or make a sound and when tabitha switched the scenarios creed always showed but no one else appeared in the open view scenarios, which led to think that the wolverine appearing in the danger room could be a hologram as the danger room recreated everything in the woods outside the school (including wolverine).
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by JephYork »

While I tend to agree from the context of the scene that the Wolvie there is a hologram, your argument is a little weak. He "never moves" because we only see him in one panel. He's "not there in other scenarios" because we only see THEM for one panel. And he's been "inside the mansion while Sabretooth was there" in other comics prior to this issue -- X-Force #46, which you mentioned in your synopses, springs to mind.

-Jeph!
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by frogcoin »

well i have another argument for the wolverine inside the danger room, even if if tis considered also as somehow weak, for those who have read a lot of series which imply the mutants to be using the danger room many of you could also notice that theres a control panel next to the door of the danger room where the persons must identify themselves for access to the training sessions or whatever the use they are going to do of it, also those who are going to access can see in the display of the control panel who is inside it, and also those who are in the main control room of the danger room can see in the monitors the list of persons participation in the session at course.

My point is that in the control panel next to the entry or in the main control room tabitha could have seen that wolverine was in the session at course as she knows that wolverine and sabretooth are not the best friends she could have let know to sabretooth wolverines presence of notified to someone else so they could take out wolverine of the room.

Yes i know you could argue that "maybe he slipped it and bypassed the controls" but if you have read the hundreds of X-books where the danger room takes part, the only times when the security access to the danger room can be bypassed (without the use of brute force of course) is when something from other dimension arrives (for example the nightcrawler story in bizarre adventures, when something appears and drags him to another dimension. dont remember the number) or when a teleportation device with the destination at the danger room is used. Even nightcrawler with his mutant ability of teleportation cant access the room just teleporting there (or get out of it).
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by JephYork »

Image

Um. Did we see a scene where Tabitha looked at the control panel and said "According to this computer, Sabretooth and I are the only ones in here"? No ... no we didn't.

You're using reverse logic: "we didn't see something happen, so therefore it couldn't have happened". That logic is flawed and doesn't hold up. You didn't see me type this message, but I still typed it.

This is actually a long-held maxim here at the MCP: "absence of evidence of one thing does not indicate that the opposite is true." Just because Thor isn't with the Avengers in a given issue doesn't mean that he's not a member at that point. Just because Cyclops doesn't mention that Jean is his wife doesn't mean that the story occurs before he was married. And just because we don't see Tabitha notice a computer screen that indicates Wolverine's presence, doesn't mean that he wasn't there.

(You also failed to address my point that Wolvie HAS "been in the mansion while Sabretooth was there" -- in fact, he did just that in the X-Force issue *right before this one*.)

Like I said -- I *agree* with you that it's probably not really Wolvie. I also agree with you that Gen X #6 and X-Force #45 occur before UX #323. But I'm in a weird place because I keep agreeing with your conclusions, while simultaneously deeply disagreeing with the methods you use to reach them...

-Jeph!

Also: "Nightcrawler can't teleport in and out of the Danger Room?" What?!
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by frogcoin »

well i write a long response but after thinking for a while if you didnt see it in a panel it never happened so ok whatever you say.

just to end this topic will we take wolverine as the real one or a hologram?
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Re: Placements around GenerationX 6

Post by JephYork »

if you didnt see it in a panel it never happened
...That wasn't exactly my message either. Sigh.
will we take wolverine as the real one or a hologram?
Well, like I've said twice now, I'm with you that he's probably a hologram. Michael seems to think otherwise. Michael, wanna jump in here?

-Jeph!
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