Balder's early history

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Balder's early history

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:05 am

First, I should point out a difference between the MCP and the current Index. It appears that the Index has T@ 5 between JIM 111/2 and JIM 119/2 in Balder's chronology, but the MCP has T@5 between T:SOA 10 (15:6:4-21) and JIM 106/2. Also, the Index treats this as a flashback, but there is no T@ 5-FB listing for anyone.

Second, I'm trying to place three flashbacks in T 605:
Balder spies an Asgardian maiden singing (1). An Asgardian woman tends to a wound sustained by Balder (2). A young student of Balder’s stealthily makes his way back to Asgard during a lesson about stealth (3).

For the sake of ease, I'd place all these flashbacks together and not split them up. The second flashback should occur before Odin grants Balder invincibility in JIM 106/2. Should we just place these three FBs right before JIM 106/2?
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Re: Balder's early history

Post by loki » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:56 pm

I wouldn't put the young boy learning stealth there. Asgardian children do grow up, and that JIM #106/2 fb is in the very distant past, back when Odin had two eyes and Tyr two hands. I'd think the flashback with the boy was pre-Ragnarok, but not necessarily much pre-Ragnarok.

I similar think the woman singing is meant to be reasonably recent - isn't she singing on the battlements of current Asgard, floating over Oklahoma?

The old woman tending his wounds is going to be some time ago, as he obviously has to have had time to heal.

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Re: Balder's early history

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:47 pm

Loki wrote:
I wouldn't put the young boy learning stealth there. Asgardian children do grow up, and that JIM #106/2 fb is in the very distant past, back when Odin had two eyes and Tyr two hands. I'd think the flashback with the boy was pre-Ragnarok, but not necessarily much pre-Ragnarok.
So, you're suggesting perhaps between, say, T2 79 and 80?

Loki wrote:
I similar think the woman singing is meant to be reasonably recent - isn't she singing on the battlements of current Asgard, floating over Oklahoma?
So, here perhaps between, say, T3 11 and T 600?

Loki wrote:
The old woman tending his wounds is going to be some time ago, as he obviously has to have had time to heal.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. Your "some time ago" implies not long ago, judging my the time to heal comment in reference to Balder today.
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Re: Balder's early history

Post by loki » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:36 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:Loki wrote:
I wouldn't put the young boy learning stealth there. Asgardian children do grow up, and that JIM #106/2 fb is in the very distant past, back when Odin had two eyes and Tyr two hands. I'd think the flashback with the boy was pre-Ragnarok, but not necessarily much pre-Ragnarok.
So, you're suggesting perhaps between, say, T2 79 and 80?
If Balder had downtime around that he could spare for teaching kids, then yes. At the end of the day, it's all guesstimates, because we've not got a huge amount to go on, but the boy didn't look noticably older, and even in Marvel time, kids slowly grow up, so it'd have to be reasonably recent. I can't see Balder being too concerned if the kid had got lost in Oklahoma, where no local wild animal is likely to be much of a threat, so it'd be back before Asgard was relocated, making it pre-Ragnarok.
Paul Bourcier wrote:Loki wrote:
I similar think the woman singing is meant to be reasonably recent - isn't she singing on the battlements of current Asgard, floating over Oklahoma?
So, here perhaps between, say, T3 11 and T 600?
That'd work - again, not a huge amount to go on, but there's few windows to place it between the Asgardians being revived and going to Latveria. Barring anything we've overlooked, between those two issues sounds as good a choice as any.
Paul Bourcier wrote:Loki wrote:
The old woman tending his wounds is going to be some time ago, as he obviously has to have had time to heal.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. Your "some time ago" implies not long ago, judging my the time to heal comment in reference to Balder today.
It's got to be at least long enough for him to have healed from his battle, and he didn't really have any battles to need surgery between being resurrected and Latveria - so we go back to Asgard. Has to be before Ragnarok - while he might have needed surgery during that, he'd have had no time to heal. Most pertinent - with her (and only her) we get a "long ago" - so it could be way back. There was a lengthy period, between JIM #106/2 and the Roy Thomas' Ragnarok, when Balder wouldn't need any surgery, because he couldn't be injured. Then post that he spent time dead and then as a pacifist. So we're looking at either pre-JIM 106/2, or else Simonson-era on I think. We can probably narrow it more, because for some of that time he'd be with Karnilla, and it'd be her people sowing wounds, not an Asgardian, but ultimately we're probably going with a best guess placement.

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Re: Balder's early history

Post by Michael » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:41 am

loki wrote:It's got to be at least long enough for him to have healed from his battle, and he didn't really have any battles to need surgery between being resurrected and Latveria - so we go back to Asgard. Has to be before Ragnarok - while he might have needed surgery during that, he'd have had no time to heal. Most pertinent - with her (and only her) we get a "long ago" - so it could be way back. There was a lengthy period, between JIM #106/2 and the Roy Thomas' Ragnarok, when Balder wouldn't need any surgery, because he couldn't be injured.
Keep in mind that Balder could still be injured by mistletoe. He also arguably could be injured by beings from outside the Nine Worlds, such as Ares, Seth,etc.

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Re: Balder's early history

Post by loki » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:58 am

Michael wrote:
loki wrote:It's got to be at least long enough for him to have healed from his battle, and he didn't really have any battles to need surgery between being resurrected and Latveria - so we go back to Asgard. Has to be before Ragnarok - while he might have needed surgery during that, he'd have had no time to heal. Most pertinent - with her (and only her) we get a "long ago" - so it could be way back. There was a lengthy period, between JIM #106/2 and the Roy Thomas' Ragnarok, when Balder wouldn't need any surgery, because he couldn't be injured.
Keep in mind that Balder could still be injured by mistletoe. He also arguably could be injured by beings from outside the Nine Worlds, such as Ares, Seth,etc.
True, but Balder notes she tended him after a giant's blow in battle had opened his flesh - so that rules out a being from outside the Nine Worlds (unless he fought non-Asgardian Giants), and makes it unlikely it was a mistletoe weapon.

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Re: Balder's early history

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:50 am

Okay, so does anyone have objections to:

FB 1 between T3 11 and T 600?
FB 2 before JIM 106/2?

As for FB 3, are we better off placing this sometime before Asgard was floating over Manhattan, so before T2 46?
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Re: Balder's early history

Post by Somebody » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:34 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:As for FB 3, are we better off placing this sometime before Asgard was floating over Manhattan, so before T2 46?
Remember, T2 79 ended with things being rewound to the end of T2 67 and carrying on differently from there, including Asgard City being restored to the Asgardian dimension. That means there's a big gap to place stuff in there before Oeming's Ragnarok (Thor appears in a few places, but that's it - Balder doesn't).

I'd place it between T2 79 and 80 as a result.

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Re: Balder's early history

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:29 am

So here's where we appear to stand:

BALDER
...
T:SOA 10 (15:6:4 - 21)
*T@ 5 [delete]
*T 605 (4:5)-FB [add]
JIM 106/2
JIM 107/2
T:G 1-FB
JIM 111/2
*T@ 5-FB [add]
JIM 119/2
...
T2 79
*T 605 (5:4)-BTS [add]
T2 80
...

...and when we get there...
T3 11
T 605 (4:3)
T 600

How's this look?

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