DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by michel » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:42 pm

For Luke Cage, FF 168-170 is before DEF 37-40 and @1

CAGE, LUKE
PM 31
M/TIO 13
FF 168
FF 169
FF 170

PM 32
PM 33
PM 34
PM 35
DEF 37
DEF 38
DEF 39
DEF 40
DEF@ 1

DEF 42

But for Hulk, DEF 37, 40 and @1 are before FF 166-167

HULK
DEF 36
DEF 37
DEF 40

M/TU 51
DEF@ 1
H2 194
FF 166
FF 167

H2 195
H2 196
H2 197
H2 198
H@ 5
DEF 41
M/TE 12
DEF 57-FB
DEF 42

I've checked the books, I didn't see Cage mentioning the FF in DEF 37-40 and @1. Neither does he mentions the Defenders in FF 168-170. And I didn't see any reference to the Fantastic Four or the Defenders in PM 32-35. That helps !

Luke Cage teams up with the Defenders in DEF 37-46. Yet, according to Hulk's chronology, there's a gap in between DEF@ 1 and DEF 41. Luke could have been hired by the FF to replace the Thing during this gap. Luke confirms in FF 168 this issue is after M/TIO 13. So :

Proposed chronology :

CAGE, LUKE
PM 31
M/TIO 13
* DEF 37 moved here
* DEF 38 moved here
* DEF 39 moved here
* DEF 40 moved here
* DEF@ 1 moved here
FF 168
FF 169
FF 170

PM 32
PM 33
PM 34
PM 35
* DEF 37 moved from here
* DEF 38 moved from here
* DEF 39 moved from here
* DEF 40 moved from here
* DEF@ 1 moved from here

DEF 42

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:48 pm

I think some other changes are due here.

HULK
...
DEF 40 (last app bef M/TU 51 according to MTU Index)
M/TU 51
DEF@ 1 (next app after M/TU 51 according to MTU Index, shortly before a presidential election)
DEF 41
M/TE 12 (election time, early Nov)
H2 194 (last app before FF 166 according to FF Index)
FF 166 (mid Nov according to FF Index)
FF 167
H2 195 (next app after FF 167 according to FF Index)
H2 196
H2 197
H2 198
H@ 5
HULK: LET THE BATTLE BEGIN 1-FB
HULK: LET THE BATTLE BEGIN 1
DEF 57-FB
DEF 42
...


CAGE
...
M/TIO 13 (late Aug or ealy Sept according to FF Index)
DEF 37
DEF 38
DEF 39
DEF 40
PM 28
PM 30 (continues from PM 30)
PM 31 (continues from PM 30, last app before FF 168 according to FF Index)
FF 168
FF 169
FF 170
PM 32 (next app after FF 170 according to FF Index)
PM 33
PM 34
PM 35
DEF 42
...
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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by michel » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:23 am

Fine for me, you just zapped DEF@ 1 in Luke's chronology

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by Russ Chappell » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:40 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:PM 30 (continues from PM 30)
Image

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by michel » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:10 pm

I was checking if moving M/TE 12 had any repercussion, and I've spotted an inconsistency in Clea's chronology

I've checked the book, Howard the Duck bids farewell to Dr. Strange and Clea on page 1 of HTD 8, and a note says they met in M/TE 12. So HTD 8 is just after M/TE 12.

But for Dr. Strange, M/TE 12 and HTD 8 are in between DEF 41 and 42

DOCTOR STRANGE II
DEF 37
DEF 38
DEF 39
DEF 40
M/TU 50
M/TU 51
DEF@ 1
DEF 41
M/TE 12
HTD 8
DEF 57-FB
DEF 42

DEF 43

and for Clea, HTD 8 is before DEF 39

CLEA
DRSTR2 13
HTD 8
DEF 39
DEF 40
DEF 41
DEF 43

DEF 45

Paul's changes in Hulk's chronology let M/TE 12 in between DEF 41 and 42, so :

Proposed chronology
CLEA
DRSTR2 13
* HTD 8 moved from here
DEF 39
DEF 40
DEF 41
* HTD 8 moved here
DEF 43

DEF 45

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by Michael » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:41 pm

There's another complicating factor. As Jeph just pointed out in another thread, PM@ 1 is placed before UX 96 for Edward Buckman and after PM 35 for Luke. The problem is that M/TU 51 takes place between DEF 40 and DEF @ 1 for Strange (and the Hulk, but he's in a seperate plot in that issue) and after UX 97 for Professor X. So if DEF@ 1 is placed before PM 35, then UX 97 takes place before UX 96!
I think the simplest thing to do would be to move Buckman's appearance in PM@ 1 in between UX 96 and UX 98. I don't have PM@ 1 in front of me- is there any reason that won't work?

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by michel » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:48 pm

I don't see any, but this White King is not easy to check. I guess he's the man in the limo, face unseen, in PM@ 1 page 2. But where the heck is he in UX 97 ?? The little bit of what seems to be a man behind Lang on the last panel ?? And why is he BTS in UX 100 if he's killed in CX 7/2 ?

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by JephYork » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:05 pm

Buckman's NOT in UX #97. Previous indexes credited that hand in the final panel to him, but the recent Index TPB acknowledged that the hand was wearing Shi'ar clothing, and changed the appearance to "one of Eric the Red's henchmen".

He's also not bts in UX #100. He's in the flashback, but that's it.

(Buckman appears in PM@ 1 as the hazy figure seen on Sakura's wrist communicator, btw.)

Given that the just-published Index TPB took *great* pains to place Buckman's PM@ appearance between his UX #100 fb and his UX #96 bts (in the entries for UX #96, UX #100 and CX #6), I'd like to keep it that way if possible. Is there another way to solve the conundrum -- say, moving Prof. X's appearance in M/TU #51?

-Jeph!

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by Michael » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:27 pm

Xavier's appearance in M/TU 51 is essentially context free- he just testifies in a trial about mind control. His placement is taken from Olshevsky's M/TU Index 3.

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by michel » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:46 am

M/TU 51 is after ASM 162 in Spider-Man's chronology, and Nightcrawler, Colossus and Wolverine appear in ASM 161-162 after UX 97

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:49 am

Oops. PM 30 continues directly from PM 28. PM 29 was a fill-in issue made necessary by the dreaded deadline doom.
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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by JephYork » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:49 am

Okay, so the chronology UX 97 > ASM 162 > M/TU 51 > UX 98 needs to stay the way it is. That's fine.

PM@ 1 was published *so far after* UX 96 that it's starting to seem a little perverse to keep it beforehand.

The Annual *does* have to occur before UX 98, as UX 98-100 is one continuous story and, according to CX 7/2, Buckman is killed in the middle of it. But there appears to be a gap of weeks between UX 97-98 (at least enough for MTU 41-51 to occur, according to Spidey's chronology.) So it's starting to look like moving PM@ 1 into that gap, and (sigh) disregarding the recent Index placement, may be a valid way to go here. Crud.

Before I commit to this, though, let me go back to the initial post and re-examine the solution that was offered. If, instead of modifying Cage's chronology to place DEF@1 (and therefore M/TU 51) prior to PM 35 (and therefore prior to PM@ 1), thus creating a problem for Buckman -- what if we modified the Hulk's chronology instead, and moved DEF 37, 40 and @1 forward to after FF 167?

-Jeph!

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by michel » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:45 pm

JephYork wrote:what if we modified the Hulk's chronology instead, and moved DEF 37, 40 and @1 forward to after FF 167?
It's more dangerous to modify Hulk's chronology because he's moving through the USA in this period. DEF@ 1 says "the American Southwest is the stomping ground of the Incredible Hulk", he fights the Headmen in Norman, Olkahoma. He's "in the great american Heartland" in H2 194. In FF 166, Colonel Sellers has charted the Hulk's movements in the Midwest for the past few weeks, and a note says it's a clue to place this story in between H2 194 and 195. And indeed, Hulk is in Florida in H2 195.

So it really looks safer to modify Cage's chronology, imho.

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by michel » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:05 am

Okay, so assuming that we move Luke Cage's chronology, and according to Jeph's comments, Buckman's chronology should look like this :

Proposed chronology :

WHITE KING/EDWARD "NED" BUCKMAN
X:HC 4-FB
* X 139-FB added
UX 100-FB
* {PM@ 1} moved from here
UX 96-BTS
CX 4-BTS
* UX 97 to be deleted
* {PM@ 1} moved here
CX 6/2-BTS
UX 98 (1 - 11)-BTS
CX 6 (14)
UX 98 (12 - 17)-BTS
UX 99-BTS
CX 7 (9)
CX 7/2
* UX 100-BTS to be deleted
Last edited by michel on Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DEF 37-40 & @1 and FF 166-170

Post by JephYork » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:50 am

There's also his appearance in X #139 fb, watching Emma's dance audition with Paris Seville. I have that between his induction of Shaw in X:HC #4 and his UX #100 fb.

-Jeph!

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