Thor: Godstorm placement

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Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by Kevin W. » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:40 pm

Okay, I now notice that Thor: Godstorm #1-3 is only partially in the MCP.

The "Silver Age" stuff in Godstorm #1 and 2 is in there, but not the "present day" Jake Olson stuff from Godstorm 2 and 3. So we need to place this in Thor's chronology somewhere.

Loki appears in Godstorm #3...here's his chronology, per the MCP:

JIM 513
T2 18-FB
DF 2.4
DF 3.6
DF 1.1
DF 1.2
DF 2.3
DF 2.4
DF 3.5
DF 3.6
DF 4.7
DF 4.8
DPOOL3 35
DPOOL3 36
DPOOL3 37
T2 16
T2 17
T2 18
T2 19
T2 20
T '00
T2 36
T2 37
T2 38

It's important to note that Loki's in prison in a mortal body between T '00 and T2 36. And T2 36 onwards leads straight into Jake Olson and Thor being split into two people, with Odin's death (and Thor assuming the throne). So...Godstorm #3 has to appear before T2 16, correct?

Sooo...it looks like the best bet is to shove Godstorm into that unfortunate gap between T2 13 and 14, correct? We have a lot of other guest appearances for Thor in different titles during that period. Thoughts?
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Re: Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by Kevin W. » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:22 am

Um, I just spotted what appears to be Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy in Thor:Godstorm #2. The problem is, going by the status of Jane Foster and the Avengers in Thor:Godstorm #1, I think this Silver Age story is set before Peter and Gwen actually got together as a couple (or before they even met)! How do we resolve that? Just say that this isn't Peter and Gwen? Maybe that's why Peter's not changing into costume to help out Thor in Godstorm #2?

EDIT: And a correction to my first post above, the Thor/Jake Olson segment in Thor: Godstorm #2 IS in the MCP for Thor. It's between Thor Annual '99 and T2 8 (more specifically, it's between DD2 16 and Thunderbolts #0). The next segment in Thor: Godstorm #3 still needs added in though.
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Re: Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by Russ Chappell » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:05 am

Clearly, that is Peter & Gwen. Ask yourself this: How likely is it that Kurt Busiek & Tom Brevoort would make that kind of mistake? At the time, I had to wonder if that wasn't Kurt's way of telling us the story isn't canon.

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Re: Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by Kevin W. » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:27 am

Russ Chappell wrote:Clearly, that is Peter & Gwen. Ask yourself this: How likely is it that Kurt Busiek & Tom Brevoort would make that kind of mistake? At the time, I had to wonder if that wasn't Kurt's way of telling us the story isn't canon.
Yet you did include Thor and Jane Foster in the MCP, placing this during the period around 1964 Journey Into Mystery issues in which they were in a romantic saga, but you haven't included Peter and Gwen in Godstorm #2 in the MCP. I at first thought it was an oversight, then I thought it was because you came to the conclusion it can't be them.

I'm open to suggestions. Either the whole thing is non-canon, or we've got to find a way to make this work, or write it off as it's not them. There have been other instances where we said a character as shown in an issue CAN'T be them due to chronology requirements. Just because it's Kurt Busiek and Tom Brevoort, doesn't mean there can't be a mistake.
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Re: Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by Russ Chappell » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:51 am

Kevin W. wrote:
Russ Chappell wrote:Clearly, that is Peter & Gwen. Ask yourself this: How likely is it that Kurt Busiek & Tom Brevoort would make that kind of mistake? At the time, I had to wonder if that wasn't Kurt's way of telling us the story isn't canon.
Yet you did include Thor and Jane Foster in the MCP, placing this during the period around 1964 Journey Into Mystery issues in which they were in a romantic saga, but you haven't included Peter and Gwen in Godstorm #2 in the MCP. I at first thought it was an oversight, then I thought it was because you came to the conclusion it can't be them.
Yes. I came to that conclusion. Although it's absurd to say it isn't them, it isn't them.
I'm open to suggestions. Either the whole thing is non-canon, or we've got to find a way to make this work, or write it off as it's not them. There have been other instances where we said a character as shown in an issue CAN'T be them due to chronology requirements. Just because it's Kurt Busiek and Tom Brevoort, doesn't mean there can't be a mistake.
I never said Kurt & Tom can't make mistakes. I asked how likely it was, that they would make this kind of mistake.

IMO, zero percent. IMO, it's not a mistake. IMO, it's intentional. I just don't know why.

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Re: Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by John Simons » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:27 pm

Isn't it within the realm of impossibility that it wasn't in the script, and Steve Rude just felt like drawing them in? And Brevoort just thought it was cute, so he left it there?

I don't have the issue open in front of me, any chance we can squint and pretend that "Gwen" is Liz Allan with her hair pulled back? :outtahere:
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Re: Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by Russ Chappell » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:13 pm

John Simons wrote:Isn't it within the realm of impossibility that it wasn't in the script, and Steve Rude just felt like drawing them in? And Brevoort just thought it was cute, so he left it there?

I don't have the issue open in front of me, any chance we can squint and pretend that "Gwen" is Liz Allan with her hair pulled back? :outtahere:
Is that a Freudian slip, or did you mean "within the realm of possibility"?

Yes, it's possible. Still an odd thing for Rude to do, and even odder for Brevoort to leave it in. It either case, it wouldn't be an oversight.

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Re: Thor: Godstorm placement

Post by robfj » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:07 am

I've scanned the various posts concerning the Weather Maker/Torrent/Trolls story within Thor: Godstorm #2-3, and I am left wondering why it was placed between Avengers #6 and Tales of Suspense #54-55. Paul Bourcier's original idea (Jan 25th 2004) of between the beginning of Av#5 and ToS#52 would make more sense to me.

Nothing can evade the problems of the cameo of Peter and Gwen and the mention of Ulik. Wasp's pointed helmet was ditched in Tales to Astonish #51, before frozen Cap was found. But as Paul suggests Wasp may have alternated between her costumes (as she was wont to do later).

Both positions agree with the makeup of the Avengers team:- the original Avengers with Cap. Both positions also fall between Journey into Mystery #100 and #101, so the relationships between Thor, Jane Foster, Odin and any other Asgardians shouldn't be affected by the choice.

But Paul's earlier placement does have 1 advantage. It allows Iron Man's helmet with the points over the eyes to be correct.

The fact that IM has his point-less helmet in Av#6 and in the beginning of Earth's Mightiest Heroes #3, before the official unveiling in ToS#54, has been carefully respected by placing his creation of his new armour in IM: Enter the Mandarin #4 before all these issues.

The continuity of IM's arnour can be maintained by moving the Godstorm issues to before IM:EtM#4, i.e anywhere around Av#5.

For the sake of accuracy you may want to indicate that the relevant story occurs in Godstorm #2 (18-25,27-31), #3 (1-2:1,3:2-23) (missing out the bits that belong to the framing story). The Avengers appear in #2 (18-25).

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