Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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tony ingram
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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by tony ingram » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:13 am

JephYork wrote:What's this now?

-Jeph!
Timesmasher was a four part story by Paul Neary and Mick austin which ran in Rampage Magazine #40-43, if I recall correctly (Loki will correct me if I'm wrong). It's a strange little strip, and was one of the first things Austin worked on before moving on to Doctor Who and 2000AD.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by loki » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:53 pm

tony ingram wrote:
loki wrote:Time Smasher is recognised as being 616, and is mentioned in Merlyn's handbook entry. It's not on MCP yet, and we hadn't gotten as far as discussing it here. It's going to have minimal impact on the chronologies here - most of the characters in the story have not been seen before or since. The only ones who do turn up elsewhere, Captain Britain and Merlyn, are easily placed - for CB it is a bts appearance during MSH 377, either before or after MSH 385's Binary Beings story (a toss up which). For Merlyn it's after MSH 377, and before his next appearance in DWM 60 (which isn't listed here yet - still have to discuss and incorporate Merlyn's Doctor Who appearances), which in turn is prior Merlyn's bts in MSH 382 (which is listed here).
thanks Loki, you guys are doing an amazing job here! I thought I was the only one who still remembered that story and its connection to the good Captain.

Have you gotten around to Assassin-8 yet?
No, he's not on MCP yet. He and Thunderclap both need to be added, the latter more than Assassin-8, since Thunderclap has another appearance in 616. Spider-Man's appearance in Spider-Man (UK Weekly) #607 through #610 is between his appearances in MTU #148 and ASM Ann #18, respectively. That's easy to place, as the Marvel UK story led straight into the start of the reprint of the annual. I'll need to check who else from Spider-Man's cast turned up in part 1 (JJJ does, iirc), so it can be incorporated into their chronologies. The Amazing Spider-Man Index did factor this Marvel UK story into Spider-Man's chronology, though a quick check has revealed that it erroneously missed out factoring in Spider-Man (UK Weekly) #608 and 609.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by JephYork » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:58 pm

Could you folks explain the Timesmasher/Captain Britain connection that you keep referring to?

-Jeph!

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by loki » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:47 pm

JephYork wrote:Could you folks explain the Timesmasher/Captain Britain connection that you keep referring to?

-Jeph!
Yes, we could.
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Oh, wait. You mean "would you," not "could you." :P
I've mentioned the strip to you before - check your e-mail of 6th November 2008, back when we were discussing extras for the CB Omnibus, and later on 17th March 2010 when we discussed Marvel UK in general.

Rampage Magazine #40 starts the Timsmasher story with a time capsule crashing in Scotland in 1981, unleashing a wave of temporal energy that engulfs nearby creatures, including a potholer and local astronomer, MacMurdo (McMurdo in the last two installments - inconsistent spelling), inflicting violent dreams of various other eras. Woken, MacMurdo soon encounters an intruder, who claims to be a time traveller from the past and shows the suspicious MacMurdo (at the end of MacMurdo's blunderbuss) to the surprisingly sparse and low-tech capsule. There the traveller admits he was a condemned criminal - the method of time travel used required two capsules, each flung different directions in time with matching numbers of people on board. The travellers was the dummy ship, intended to self-destruct on arrival. Then a flash of light heralds a new arrival, terrifying the traveller.

Rampage #42 (they skipped an issue and ran Alan Davis' Crusader one-shot in #41) shows that the new arrival is more sophisticated capsule with killer robots on board. The humans try to hide, but are spotted, then saved by the arrival of a man glowing with energy who destroys the robots. MacMudro guesses (rightly) that this man must have been caught in the epicentre of the first ship's arrival, and they witness the man stop, gaze heavenward and call on Merlin and Arthur, asking for them to command him and show them the way. MacMurdo thinks he's demented, but the traveller is terrified - his people fled from the far future to the prehistoric past to escape the destruction of their civilisation by the glowing man.

Rampage #42 starts with a text box that identifies the glowing man as the potholer we briefly saw in a single panel in the first installment. The skies twist above the man, and Merlin appears (not a visage we've seen before), calling the man Kilgore Slaughter, and admitting he "shaped events this day to serve my leige Arthur, the once and future king." Merlin diverted the traveller's capsule to empower Slaughter, additionally giving the traveller the gift of life "as he travelled the mists of time....A diversion prevents his intended death, a diversion caused by the one known as Captain Britain...despatched by my leige Arthur on an eldritch journey to an Earth not his own." Merlin then tells the man some stuff about his task being his destiny, without actually explaining what he's supposed to do, and vanishes. MacMurdo and the time traveller try to slip away, but Kilgore spots them. They are terrified (especially the time traveller), but Kilgore offers out a hand of friendship. They check the robots' capsule and move to the nearby woods to hide it before the local villagers spot it. MacMurdo is fascinated by the idea of time travelling himself, but they'll need an even number to do so, and he returns to the observatory and wakes his engineering student daughter.

Rampage #43, and the daughter (now identified as Fiona McMurdo) works to repair the first, damaged capsule, the one that brought the original time traveller (now named as Ralf), with Ralf's assistance. With the repairs complete, the old astronomer plans to travel forward 1000 years, with Kilgore as his bodyguard because he figures the locals will consider him akin to a medieval peasant, while Fiona and Ralf go back to 981 - he advises them to stay inside the craft and have a picnic, as the locals of that era should have no way of getting into the vessel. However, as they power up, Kilgore (who has fashioned himself a crown and cape to go with the overalls McMurdo gave him to replace his damaged clothes) tells his travelling companion that Merlin commands him to go alone, and teleports McMurdo out. As the craft vanishes into the future, Fiona arrives, revealing she also got teleported out of the reciprocal vessel. Slaughter arrives in the future (presumably Ralf's people's original time, the one they fled to escape Slaughter), exits to a hostile reception (seems to be quite dystopian, from what little we see of it, hence I guess why a nice guy like Ralf is considered a condemned criminal and why Merlin wanted it destroyed), and smiles as his enemies approach. Back in 1981 the two capsules suddenly return - Ralf emerges and he and Fiona joyfully reunite, having apparently fallen for one another during their day working on repairing the damaged capsule. Slaughter also emerges, having taken 30 minutes to destroy Ralf's future civilisation (so the text box tells us). McMurdo tells the young couple to break it up, as momentous events are afoot, then turns to Slaughter, saying that their friend has much to tell them, and then much to accomplish here.

And that's where we ended - whatever the improbably named Kilgore Slaughter was intended to do next, we never got told.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by JephYork » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:23 pm

That sounds terrible. :(

I'm also not sure why it would count as a bts appearance for Captain Britain. It sounds like Merlin was just mentioning the events of another comic.

-Jeph!

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by loki » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:54 pm

Merlin's comment implies it was CB passing through the interdimensional void that caused Ralf to go off course.

As stories go, it was okay, bar Kilgore Slaughter's dodgy name, until part 4, which feels extremely rushed.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by tony ingram » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:59 am

I rather liked it. But then, i have a soft spot for oddities like this anyway, and for Austin's art.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by tony ingram » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:22 pm

loki wrote: Ant-Man's story (HC #48-49) has nothing to help place it, bar it being printed immediately following a reprint of Marvel Feature #10. Since Pym had briefly reverted to being Ant-Man around this time, I see no reason not to place the HC story right after this. This would mean that the Yellowjacket listing would be amended to inset the HC stories
M/FEA 10
HC 48/5
HC 49/5
A 139-FB
I've just added HC #48-49 to the Marvel DB Wikia, and while I was originally fairly happy with the placing you've suggested here, having just reread the story I'm now not so sure. The somewhat 'retro' feel to the story, the fact that Pym is using reducing gas cylinders in his belt (hadn't he internalized his powers by this point?) and the fact that his identity seems to be a secret and the crooked businessman, Charles Harrington, seems to think he can easily be framed as a thief seem to suggest this is meant to be early in Hank's career, before he becomes a well known figure. Then again, Steve Dillon has slightly altered his outfit; he never wore buccaneer boots and wide topped gloves in his sixties series. Of course, he could just have been trying the look out, briefly...

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by loki » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:09 pm

tony ingram wrote:
loki wrote: Ant-Man's story (HC #48-49) has nothing to help place it, bar it being printed immediately following a reprint of Marvel Feature #10. Since Pym had briefly reverted to being Ant-Man around this time, I see no reason not to place the HC story right after this. This would mean that the Yellowjacket listing would be amended to inset the HC stories
M/FEA 10
HC 48/5
HC 49/5
A 139-FB
I've just added HC #48-49 to the Marvel DB Wikia, and while I was originally fairly happy with the placing you've suggested here, having just reread the story I'm now not so sure. The somewhat 'retro' feel to the story, the fact that Pym is using reducing gas cylinders in his belt (hadn't he internalized his powers by this point?) and the fact that his identity seems to be a secret and the crooked businessman, Charles Harrington, seems to think he can easily be framed as a thief seem to suggest this is meant to be early in Hank's career, before he becomes a well known figure. Then again, Steve Dillon has slightly altered his outfit; he never wore buccaneer boots and wide topped gloves in his sixties series. Of course, he could just have been trying the look out, briefly...
Thanks for the update. I've ended any involvement I have with the Marvel DB Wikia, so I haven't seen your updates. I agree that there could be a case made for placing the stories earlier, though it would be more down to the gas cylinders point than the costume - Pym has a habit of revisiting old costumes. Harrington's attitude is good circumstantial evidence, though not in itself confirmation - not sure when Pym's identity became widely known. We really need to take the opinions of those who know Pym's personal timeline better.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by Michael » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:22 pm

In A 75, Hank and Jan hold a press conference to announce they're leaving the Avengers and their identities are publicly known. So if Hank's identity is secret in HC 48-49, those issues would have to take place before A 75.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by tony ingram » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:33 am

loki wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
loki wrote: Ant-Man's story (HC #48-49) has nothing to help place it, bar it being printed immediately following a reprint of Marvel Feature #10. Since Pym had briefly reverted to being Ant-Man around this time, I see no reason not to place the HC story right after this. This would mean that the Yellowjacket listing would be amended to inset the HC stories
M/FEA 10
HC 48/5
HC 49/5
A 139-FB
I've just added HC #48-49 to the Marvel DB Wikia, and while I was originally fairly happy with the placing you've suggested here, having just reread the story I'm now not so sure. The somewhat 'retro' feel to the story, the fact that Pym is using reducing gas cylinders in his belt (hadn't he internalized his powers by this point?) and the fact that his identity seems to be a secret and the crooked businessman, Charles Harrington, seems to think he can easily be framed as a thief seem to suggest this is meant to be early in Hank's career, before he becomes a well known figure. Then again, Steve Dillon has slightly altered his outfit; he never wore buccaneer boots and wide topped gloves in his sixties series. Of course, he could just have been trying the look out, briefly...
Thanks for the update. I've ended any involvement I have with the Marvel DB Wikia, so I haven't seen your updates. I agree that there could be a case made for placing the stories earlier, though it would be more down to the gas cylinders point than the costume - Pym has a habit of revisiting old costumes. Harrington's attitude is good circumstantial evidence, though not in itself confirmation - not sure when Pym's identity became widely known. We really need to take the opinions of those who know Pym's personal timeline better.
Sorry to hear you've parted ways with the DB, Loki. Your contributions were invaluable. Sadly, a few of the more recent additions seem less inclined to do any proper research before editing.
Last edited by tony ingram on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by tony ingram » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:41 am

Michael wrote:In A 75, Hank and Jan hold a press conference to announce they're leaving the Avengers and their identities are publicly known. So if Hank's identity is secret in HC 48-49, those issues would have to take place before A 75.
Thanks. I knew they'd become publicly known as Giant Man and Wasp before their first return to the Avengers, but I wasn't sure where they'd been 'outed'. I personally think the HC story would have to be set early in his Ant Man career, before the Wasp's arrival. Given that it ends with him wondering why his ants abandoned him, I'd be tempted to put it somewherte around the time of Tales to Astonish #38, when Egghead was influencing the ants against him; maybe in between scenes in that issue, somewhere? Though there probably isn't room, it's been a long time since I've read it properly...

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Re: Marvel stories set in 616, produced outside the US

Post by ShadZ » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:07 pm

loki wrote:At Jeph's suggestion, I'm bringing a disucssion to the MCP that I began on the Index lists.

There's been a number of stories produced in countries outside the US. While some are not 616 (X-Campus, Hulk manga, either Spider-Man manga, etc), there are others which are part of 616 continuity, and some which need examined to see if they might be. The most obvious example, the Captain Britain stories, are already covered here, and some others are (Europa, Saudade, for example). But many are not. I'm interested in closing that particular gap, and in getting feedback regarding where stuff might fit.
Are you looking to make a list of such stories? Because here's one I just found out about today:

"Baronesse von Frankenstein" from Das Monster von Frankenstein #26 (Germany). It continues (but does not conclude) the story from Frankenstein Monster #18

Read more about it here: http://www.panelology.info/Marvel/Frankenstein-p2.html
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