Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

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captamr
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Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

Post by captamr » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:20 am

The graphic novel She-Hulk in Ceremony is missing some Avenger appearances and the characters that are listed have some problems. The most troublesome feature is the presence of the Thing in his traditional form when in 1989 (indicia date but came out in 1990) he should be in his normal Ben Grimm person or the mutated Thing that belonged to the West Coast Avengers or Fantastic Four without Reed and Sue. The current placement puts him very much in his normal human form with no explanations. FF 336 has Ben in his traditional form via a Thing suit (exoskeleton) created by Mr. Fantastic. This is followed by a traditional Thing cameo in ASPOT 29/2, again assuming the suit. Ben appears subsequently as his normal self.

This would seem a likely spot for S-H:C 1. This also fits the period for the Human Torch who is happy go lucky here very content with his marriage. The Invisible Woman needs to be moved down also to match the time period. She-Hulk herself has little problem chronologically here but, I would suggest moving her listings earlier to match the Avengers; Wasp, Scarlet Witch, and Tigra. The ladies need to be placed before AWC 47 because their lives become very complicated from here on and a leisurely wedding shower for She-Hulk in S-H:C 1 is a little hard to squeeze in, otherwise. The biggest conflict here is Tigra who is completely cat-like and shrunken by Dr. Pym in AWC 47. Wanda is starting to lose it but still sane enough to attend a quick party for a dear friend.


SHE-HULK/JENNIFER WALTERS
A 310
*S-H:C 1 (move here)
*S-H:C 2 (move here)
AWC 47
AWC 48
AWC 49
*S-H:C 1 (remove)
*S-H:C 2 (remove)
S-H2 6
S-H2 7

HUMAN TORCH II/JOHNNY STORM

FF 336
*S-H:C 1
ASPOT 29/2

THING/BENJAMIN J. GRIMM
A 305
*S-H:C 1 (remove)
A@ 18
WOSM@ 5
AWC@ 4
T@ 14
FF@ 22
DHAWK 25-FB
DH 9
FF 334
FF 335
FF 336
*S-H:C 1 (move here)
ASPOT 29/2
H2 365


INVISIBLE WOMAN/SUE STORM RICHARDS

A 308
*S-H:C 1 (remove)
A@ 18
WOSM@ 5
AWC@ 4
T@ 14
FF@ 22
DH 9
FF 334
FF 335
FF 336
*S-H:C 1 (move here)
PP 54
H2 365

WASP, SCARLET WITCH, TIGRA

FF 333
*S-H:C 1
AWC 47
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Michael
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Re: Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

Post by Michael » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:54 pm

Ben first wears the exoskeleton in A@ 18- there's no reason why S-H:C has to take place after FF 336 for Ben. In fact, S-H:C can't take place before AWC 49 and after FF 336- AWC 49 takes place before A@ 18 and FF 336 takes place after A@ 18. The simplest solution is that S-H:C takes place before AWC 49 (and FF 336) and Ben started wearing his exoskeleton a little before A@ 18.

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Re: Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

Post by captamr » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:35 pm

By AWC 49, Tigra is a shrunken cat in Dr. Pym's lab and Wanda gets a little more possessed each issue after AWC 47. This was my indicator for placing them and the Wasp prior to AWC 47. The She-Hulk move is to facilitate their appearances and doesn't pose a problem for her.

I see the conflict with the Fantastic Four, but the "Atlantis Attack" annuals may be early for them and FF 334 - 336 is the "Acts of Vengeance" arc where Reed Richards defends super-heroes before a congressional committee and never once mentions the "just completed" (according to Fantastic Four chronology) massive conglomeration of heroes to save the world!! I believe these annuals posed problems before and may need to be looked at further.
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Re: Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

Post by Michael » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:05 pm

captamr wrote: I see the conflict with the Fantastic Four, but the "Atlantis Attack" annuals may be early for them and FF 334 - 336 is the "Acts of Vengeance" arc where Reed Richards defends super-heroes before a congressional committee and never once mentions the "just completed" (according to Fantastic Four chronology) massive conglomeration of heroes to save the world!! I believe these annuals posed problems before and may need to be looked at further.
One of the rules at the Project is that we don't go by what wasn't mentioned. Reed didn't mention it because he felt he had better ways to make his point. Again, is there any reason S-H:C can't take place in between FF 333 and A@ 18 for the FF, and in between AWC 46 and 47 for the WCA?

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Re: Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

Post by metaldragon » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:50 am

captamr wrote:By AWC 49, Tigra is a shrunken cat in Dr. Pym's lab and Wanda gets a little more possessed each issue after AWC 47. This was my indicator for placing them and the Wasp prior to AWC 47. The She-Hulk move is to facilitate their appearances and doesn't pose a problem for her.

I see the conflict with the Fantastic Four, but the "Atlantis Attack" annuals may be early for them and FF 334 - 336 is the "Acts of Vengeance" arc where Reed Richards defends super-heroes before a congressional committee and never once mentions the "just completed" (according to Fantastic Four chronology) massive conglomeration of heroes to save the world!! I believe these annuals posed problems before and may need to be looked at further.
The Atlantis Attacks annuals conclusion placement needs to factor in The X-Men/The New Mutants/X-Factor's involvement in the storyline which puts it right before Acts of Vengeance due to continuity issues between the 3 titles... which have been explored in (at least 3?) previous threads on here.

X-Men must appear in Chapter 3: UX@ 13 before UX 246 (Master Mold storyline where Rogue gets sucked into the Siege Perilous).
The New Mutants appear in Chapter 9: NM@ 5 in NM 87 between pages 27 & 31 (they return from Asgard & wonder if X-Factor have returned from space yet).
Jean & Beast appear in Chapters 10, 12-14: XF@ 4, AWC@ 4, T@ 14, FF@ 22 between their appearances in XF 51/NM 88 pg 9 & NM 88 pg 13/XF 52 (they return to Earth after "in space" storyline).
Storm must appear in Chapters 12-14: before UX 248 (where she is de-aged by Nanny).

Problems:
1. Polaris connects the different plot threads throughout UX 249-255 (Storm de-aged/team breaking apart, Destiny & Stonewall's deaths, Acts of Vengeance tie-in). Moira berates Magneto in X-Men 253 that she hasn't had contact from the New Mutants since circa NM 75. The New Mutants reunion with X-Factor, televised by reporters on the news in NM 88 pg 7, needs to take place before UX 248. Moira's next direct contact with them isn't until NM 88 pg 27 and is obviously being controlled by the Shadow King by that point (post-Destiny & Stonewall's deaths). Solution: The newscast of X-Factor's return to Earth wasn't a big deal in Scotland or she was busy and missed it. Magneto, who'd began his turn to the dark side again during Inferno, probably decided not to tell her (a mere human) where they were, if he saw the newscast.
2. The secondary storyline in NM 83-88 involving Rusty & Skids vs Freedom Force begins just after Avengers Spotlight 25 and is part of the Acts of Vengeance mess. Freedom Force tells the press that Destiny & Stonewall were just killed in NM 86 pp 25-29. In NM 88 Mystique mentions that X-Factor's ship has "just landed" in New York and Cable sees it. Solution: unhooking their plot-line and placing it just after Atlantis Attacks. Ship, X-Factor & the New Mutants must have flown off and returned BTS, probably to first search for Marvel Girl & Beast during XF@ 4, then got involved in something BTS during the rest of Atlantis Attacks, while Muir Island was attacked and then Acts of Vengeance, which kept them from returning to destroyed X-Factor complex landing spot until that point.
3. The secondary storyline in XF 49-51 involving Apocalypse turning down Loki's attempt to recruit him into Acts of Vengeance. Solution: ignoring "meanwhile"s and placing just after Atlantis Attacks.

Other reference points:
1. Ghaur mentions in NM@ 5 that A@ 18 (Atlantis Attacks Chapter 8) took place just before NM 76 (Namor helps New Mutants fight sea monster summoned by magic horn). The dialogue is vague so it could be explained away if necessary.
2. Beast appears in A 305 alongside the rest of the Avengers when the "Avengers Assemble" there, probably before X-Factor leaves for England in XF 41 but can be moved if necessary.
3. Members of Freedom Force appear in A 312, PUN2 29, H2 369-FB & H2 369 (which tie into Acts of Vengeance) after they appear in UX 255/NM 86 & before they appear next in NM 88.
4. Reconnection point of plot threads for New Mutants, X-Factor & X-Men is NM 88 pp 13. That's where X-Factor and the New Mutants see a recording of the newscast of Rusty & Skids' arrest and the announcement of Destiny & Stonewall's deaths (NM 86 pp 25-29) and then Wolfsbane calls Moira. That moment would probably take place at the tail end of Acts of Vengeance then.

The FF appears in Chapters 11-14 of Atlantis Attacks alongside Jean, Beast & Storm and most of the rest of the Marvel Universe.
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captamr
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Re: Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

Post by captamr » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:44 pm

Again, is there any reason S-H:C can't take place in between FF 333 and A@ 18 for the FF, and in between AWC 46 and 47 for the WCA?

In light of the fantastic summary of events with "Atlantis" and "Acts", it would seem that they must follow each other for the Fantastic Four and the lady Avengers are well placed.

As a note,the summary was very helpful and would have been very useful to a "Johnny-come-lately" as myself. It would be an incredible tool if these types of conclusions could be collected in one category or is the only way to find these, is by searching for specific issues or arcs?
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Re: Sensational She-Hulk in Ceremony

Post by metaldragon » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:26 pm

Links back to some of those previous discussions of Atlantis Attacks and Acts of Vengeance for the interested:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5024

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4435

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3979
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